Pre-Mastered v Mastered v Mastered

FruitarGeek · 2013-08-13T08:34:51+00:00

Got the tracks back, so for the sake of science, I will put a track up of each song. Pre-Mastered (*Its very soft, obviously, I didn't want to slap a limiter or anything on in fear of 'tainting' the sound. Just turn your speakers up) https://app.box.com/s/y61lmakgkor9kx6gi5ku Mastered - By Arno https://app.box.com/s/qt1jhdub5az1hitaww8u Mastered - Hired Gun: Simplexity Productions

Arno-West

Thx for the positive comments guys.

I must admit, I didn't spend a hell of a lot of time "mastering" the tracks. I downloaded the Mp3s (320kbps), that Adrian sent me, gave each track a quick listen and asked myself what I would want to hear if the tracks were mine. As Adrian mentioned, he gave me no brief and although I thought of asking him what he was looking for, I decided it will be better just to follow my gut instinct and go ahead with it.

The "dry"-mixes were just that IMO, in fact they were very dry...so my first thought was that I should widen the mix a bit and maybe, just maybe add a smidgen of verb on it. I did do 2 versions of each tune (1 without the verb added and 1 with the verb added), so Adrian, if you want the "dry" versions, I can mail them to you, but only next month 'cos Ive reached my dreaded Data-limit again...

So, here's what I did.
(Pls bear in mind that I use this method for "Quick"-mastering and by no means is this the only way I do things. This is just for interest sake, so don't crucify me should you think I do things the wrong/non-prescribed way)

1. Downloaded Mp3's (320kbps) that Adrian sent me.
2. Gave tracks a quick listen.
3. Converted Mp3's to WAV (44.1khz) using Format Factory (a very useful FREE converting program)
4. Imported each track seperately into Wavelab 6.
5. Normalized each track to -1db
6. Top and Tail-ed each track. In other words, cleaned up the beginning and end.
7. Rendered Spectrasonics BBE D-82 Sonic Maximiser (Master Preset 1) onto whole track. This added some crisp tops and accentuated the bottoms a bit without making them too boomy.
8. Rendered WAVES C4 (using Pop Vocal preset and boosting 250hz by 0.5db).
9. Rendered Stereo-Expander (set at 23%) onto whole track.
10. Rendered NaturalVerb (very short decay and small room with a 12/88 wet/dry setting) onto whole track.
11. Did a Global Analysis and error detection to check for any clicks etc. and fixed them. There were very few.
12. Rendered WAVES L2 Maximiser (using 24-bit Hi-Res CD Master preset) onto whole track setting Output at -0.1db.
13. Converted Mastered track back to Mp3(320kbps) and mailed back to Adrian.

This whole process took me about 15-20 minutes per song. I would like to know how long it took the Pro-Dude per track, what he charged and whether the difference between the tracks are that big that it is justified.

Anyway, it was good fun and a worthwhile experiment I think.
Laterz.

V8

Interesting stuff Arno - many thanks for the details - made me think a bit more about what I was doing.

Like Pete mentioned, the options are endless tweaking - so I went back and tweaked some more, added back a little low end and some 'verb : https://app.box.com/s/j711za9349dravgro8n1

Arno-West

Hey V8. It's awesome that you are experimenting and really getting into it. Just a word of advice - when you want to go back and add a bit of tgis and a bit of that, it's better to start from scratch with the raw mix than to try and fix/change a processed track. Always start with the raw track.
A final word of advice, don't drive yourself nuts with this experimenting. The possibilities are endless and it's very easy to get consumed by the desire to try different things. Ever seen the photo of the skeleton slumping over the mixing desk with the caption "The mix is almost right..."?
Just have fun and learn, don't let it drive you insane.

briang-telkomsa-net

Arno - thanks for sharing the low down on your "quick" approach - its a nice "tick list" guide.

My guess is that your result probably gives the best value for money option?
i.e. optimal mix of time spent (very little) verse quality of output (IMHO good).

V8

Arno West wrote Just a word of advice - when you want to go back and add a bit of tgis and a bit of that, it's better to start from scratch with the raw mix than to try and fix/change a processed track. Always start with the raw track.

You are spot on - great advice, thanked! My first one I threw away, started from scratch on the 2nd one (1st posted) and then tweaked the second one to make the third. Reading your comments, I realized that my best effort was the second one where I started from scratch - this was a valuable lesson.

Arno West wrote A final word of advice, don't drive yourself nuts with this experimenting. The possibilities are endless and it's very easy to get consumed by the desire to try different things. Ever seen the photo of the skeleton slumping over the mixing desk with the caption "The mix is almost right..."?
Just have fun and learn, don't let it drive you insane.

Yeah man, no worries - I'm just really enjoying having someone else's work to play with, I'm far to subjective/critical working on my sh1te.

Perhap

s a poor analogy....I'm coming to understand that recording is much like baking a cake - and mastering is the icing - certainly makes a impact, but the cake's gotta be right first (recipe, ingredients, technique, mixture).

Mixerboy

V8 wrote
Arno West wrote Just a word of advice - when you want to go back and add a bit of tgis and a bit of that, it's better to start from scratch with the raw mix than to try and fix/change a processed track. Always start with the raw track.
You are spot on - great advice, thanked! My first one I threw away, started from scratch on the 2nd one (1st posted) and then tweaked the second one to make the third. Reading your comments, I realized that my best effort was the second one where I started from scratch - this was a valuable lesson.

Arno West wrote A final word of advice, don't drive yourself nuts with this experimenting. The possibilities are endless and it's very easy to get consumed by the desire to try different things. Ever seen the photo of the skeleton slumping over the mixing desk with the caption "The mix is almost right..."?
Just have fun and learn, don't let it drive you insane.
Yeah man, no worries - I'm just really enjoying having someone else's work to play with, I'm far to subjective/critical working on my sh1te.

Perhap

s a poor analogy....I'm coming to understand that recording is much like baking a cake - and mastering is the icing - certainly makes a impact, but the cake's gotta be right first (recipe, ingredients, technique, mixture).

If I may adjust your analogy: recording is like a cake, the song writing and arranging is the cake, the performance and recording is the cream filling, mixing is the icing and the mastering is the cherry on top.

If only I had R10 for every time I've used the "cake" analogy, but it's pretty accurate, even so far as if all your ingredients were perfect and you baked the perfect cake you can still screw the whole thing up with crappy icing[mixing], likewise no amount of amazing icing[mixing] can cover up a disaster of the main cake let alone trying to fix it with just a cherry[mastering] on top.

V8

Mixerboy wrote If I may adjust your analogy: recording is like a cake, the song writing and arranging is the cake, the performance and recording is the cream filling, mixing is the icing and the mastering is the cherry on top.

If only I had R10 for every time I've used the "cake" analogy, but it's pretty accurate, even so far as if all your ingredients were perfect and you baked the perfect cake you can still screw the whole thing up with crappy icing[mixing], likewise no amount of amazing icing[mixing] can cover up a disaster of the main cake let alone trying to fix it with just a cherry[mastering] on top.

:yup: - Being a bit of a baker, the analogy just seemed to work. Like the way you've phrased it!

Btw, the video you posted in Adrian's previous topic "How to music really good - mastering" was quite brilliant (funny as all hell) - I understand I'm approaching the process back to front, for some bizzaro reason that's the way I tend to do things.

FruitarGeek

Ok, had some time to digest all these remasters.

Pete

You did a spot on Job. May favourite's where the first and third one, you really nailed the Kick sound I wanted, If I could, I'd have that kick sound on the released version of the song. The first one was very conservative in the sense that it didn't have that epic stereo image that the pro guy used, it was also much softer. The third (and even second) you definitely resolved that issue. I'd say in terms of stereo imaging its nearly the same as the released track, maybe a touch less 'stereo' but no one would notice. One point of critic where I personally feel that the pro got right was the snare sound. Your snare kinda washed out a bit, whereas the pro guy kept the punchiness of the attack. Which is what I wanted. But ultimately I must say your Kick wins hands down, the kick for me was VERY important in this track, and although the pro guy did a steller job on the kick, I feel it didn't quite hit that level I wanted. Your's certainly did. I think I should use you for the next album ?

V8

Did I hear clipping? Maybe its my side, but it sounded very distorted in the big parts, so for me thats a big no no hahaha. Other than that, you did a great job too. You got the levels well, you got the kick to pierce, the vocals are audible, things are panning where they should. The Kit sounded in general a touch too raw for my liking, it may have been the reverb, also, the snare lots its punch. But a great try nonetheless.

ShreddySmurf wrote Just want to say, I think this is a wonderful song. Vocally, lyrically and melodically, it's just great. 8)

I never really said thank you, so . . . Thank you ? I hope you'll enjoy the other songs we release

V8 wrote :yup: - Being a bit of a baker, the analogy just seemed to work. Like the way you've phrased it!.

The whole analogy seemed correct, except I think we have to give Mastering more credit than merely being the cherry. I think we have all seen what a great difference mastering makes to a mix, it literally colours the entire song, cherries don't quite do the same for a cake haha. Unless you layer the cake in cherries. Just my 2c

PeteM

Adrian Rogowski wrote I think I should use you for the next album ?

Well it is a service I offer. ?

I would have liked to have used the WAV file.

sharonzaz

ShreddySmurf wrote Just want to say, I think this is a wonderful song. Vocally, lyrically and melodically, it's just great. 8)

I fully agree! great song, and my only crit is that during the recording process, better care should
have been taken laying down the piano and some of the guitars as they go out of time here and there.

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