Pre-Mastered v Mastered v Mastered

FruitarGeek

Got the tracks back, so for the sake of science, I will put a track up of each song.

Pre-Mastered (*Its very soft, obviously, I didn't want to slap a limiter or anything on in fear of 'tainting' the sound. Just turn your speakers up)

https://app.box.com/s/y61lmakgkor9kx6gi5ku

Mastered - By Arno

https://app.box.com/s/qt1jhdub5az1hitaww8u

Mastered - Hired Gun: Simplexity Productions

V8

D/L'ed and listening now

Thanks for letting us in on the process (and Arno for participating).

Any and all comments I make will reflect my complete lack of knowledge on the subject! I'm here to learn more... ?

I've loaded Arno's & Pre-Mastered into Reaper, tried to get the level's even-ish (sitting +9db) to A/B/C the three tracks.

Thoughts :

Compared to the pre master, Simplexity's seems less coloured in terms of additional eq/reverb, feels more like the original track. The track feels fuller & instruments (notably the drums) feel more cohesive - In the pre-master, they stick out a bit for me?

In comparison to Simplexity's, Arno's feels a little less like the original track. Levels are comparable, instruments also sound more cohesive than the pre master. Eq seems crisper overall, (hats are quite bright?) and there seems to be another layer of reverb/ambiance added - which I like on the vocals, not so much on the drums though. There does seem to be a bit more width to Arno's on the highs as well?

Which would I pick...errr, depends on the original brief you gave the guys I reckon? I'd be pretty damn pleased with either, although I might just twist Arno's arm, take around the original mix, beers and see what resulted ?

P.s. Like the track, the vocals make me miss the ex (which is some feat!) - heh.

21Fretter

It's awesome to hear how much of a difference there is, could be played on the radio.

how was the original recorded? (home/studio/etc)

I liked Simplexity Production's, it feels like the vocals got missed out on a bit in Arno's, quite a bit less lively than everything else for me.

FruitarGeek

This was indeed some very interesting results.

I think I/We have to give Arno some kudos. Firstly, he had to master using mp3's where as Simplexity had the wav's. Not only that, but I still gave Simplexity a brief on what I want, and after he sent me his first batch of masters, I sent them back with minor corrections, with Arno, I've done no such thing.

I was always one of the ignorant muso's who thought mastering did nothing to a song. And that it was a waste of money. It was only until I started recording myself that I saw its need. As you can clearly hear, there is a MASSIVE difference in the pre-master and both masters. Both masters contain elements that the mastering engineer sought to add, and colour with. Arno may have though, "hmmm, this could use more reverb" whereas the other guy thought "I'm gonna emphasise the vocals" etc. Its all so subjective.

V8

So I gave it a bash last nite using the pre-mastered mp3, was a bloody useful exercise for me.

I wanted to make the track sound a bit wider, trying to move the backing vocals to the sides, keep the lead vocal in the center and glue the instruments together nicely (like Arno's & Simplexity 's). I lost the punch they retained, didn't manage to match the levels they produced - glue'ing the instruments together was the most difficult, taming the piano in the last 30s, defied every attempt :-[

Now I'm not at all sure that Arno added any reverb - somehow I got a excess of reverb, but I know I didn't add any. I think I also added way too much high's - might be that me ears are a bit fried from abusive listening (too loud on crappy systems).

Yip, kudo's to Arno!

Lethe

Does the Mastering engineer only receive a stereo track of the whole song or does he get all the different tracks?

AlanRatcliffe

Lethe wrote: Does the Mastering engineer only receive a stereo track of the whole song or does he get all the different tracks?

Mixing engineer deals with all the separate tracks. Mastering is on the final mix, which will typically be a high resolution, uncompressed stereo or surround file.

V8 wrote: somehow I got a excess of reverb, but I know I didn't add any. I think I also added way too much high's

Compression would bring out the reverb too.

I wouldn't want to change the panning at mastering stage, other than maybe widening or (more likely) narrowing the entire soundstage. If instruments really need moving around, I'd refer it back to the mixing engineer.

PeteM

Hey Adrian... hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of mastering it as well, off the MP3 though. You'll find it here.
https://app.box.com/s/vxb82bk1kt4vld0muncf

PeteM

Okay so I was a bit conservative with the compression on the first one, so here is an alternative version.
https://app.box.com/s/g6wfi4hwoq8kcvwijjvo

PeteM

One more for luck... slightly less compression... rolled off some bass and it's more punchy. One can go on forever.
https://app.box.com/s/szfynr1wzvmd58t2vnag

Mixerboy

I think so far I prefer Pete's last attempt, 3 times a charm.

FruitarGeek

Wow. I like the initiative you guys are taking.

I for one am all for the everyday musician becoming well aquainted with the techniques of mixing, mastering and production. It will make you a better muscian in the long-run. Having said that . . . I have no problem with giving any of you the wav, or stems or whatever your heart desires for the music. You welcome to do remix's, remasters etc etc. Just message me and I will sort you out.

Pete, I will give a listen to all 3. I'm interested to hear the results

PeteM

Thanks Adrian. It would have been good to have had the individual tracks plus a master mix for reference. If I had had the tracks I would have warmed up the vocals a bit and compressed them a little more so that they punched through the backing better without compromising levels. Cheers.

Mixerboy

I'm up for playing around with the tracks, "mastering" is not my thing.

Warren

Just want to say, I think this is a wonderful song. Vocally, lyrically and melodically, it's just great. 8)

briang-telkomsa-net

Agree - kudos to Arno, not much difference between the two for me except for the following - highlighting my ignorance perhaps.
Hired Gun's master seemed to have a bit more "depth" - had the .wav files to work with I guess?

V8

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
V8 wrote: somehow I got a excess of reverb, but I know I didn't add any. I think I also added way too much high's
Compression would bring out the reverb too.

I wouldn't want to change the panning at mastering stage, other than maybe widening or (more likely) narrowing the entire soundstage. If instruments really need moving around, I'd refer it back to the mixing engineer.

Thanks Alan - managed to work around the compression (I'm using Izotope, so it was the 'dynamics' section). Still getting to grips with the tools and concepts involved (and probably will be for a loooong time).

Agree that I'd really go back to the mix stage to play with the sound stage, Adrian has kindly offered to give us access to the stems, but I have little faith I'd do a better job than he has...

PeteM wrote: One more for luck... slightly less compression... rolled off some bass and it's more punchy. One can go on forever.
https://app.box.com/s/szfynr1wzvmd58t2vnag

I like it! Nice work Pete! Wonder what Adrian's thought are?

For what it's worth I went back and and made one for public consumption - I focused on the vocals, getting them as prominent as I could, the low end suffered a bit though - at best it's a headphone mix for the the Dr Dre Beats owners ???

https://app.box.com/s/j711za9349dravgro8n1

Thanks again for the tune to work with Adrian, was quite illuminating to have someone else's tune to work with.

PeteM

Good one V8. But for me you have rolled off too much bass. It's all very subjective hey. It's all in the ears of the the client at the end of the day though.

V8

PeteM wrote: Good one V8. But for me you have rolled off too much bass. It's all very subjective hey. It's all in the ears of the the client at the end of the day though.

Thanks Pete - 100% agreed, I did roll off too much bass, thought it might be nice to have a version that had a slightly different sound (I also went a bit banana's on the stereo imaging during the vocals sections) - if just for listening comparison.

FruitarGeek

V8 wrote: I like it! Nice work Pete! Wonder what Adrian's thought are?

I will have a listen tomorrow, and let you know. Very excited.

V8 wrote: Agree that I'd really go back to the mix stage to play with the sound stage, Adrian has kindly offered to give us access to the stems, but I have little faith I'd do a better job than he has...

Thanks, I guess. This was my first time mixing a full on band and with all live instruments, so any feedback is much much appreciated. I will make available all our songs at a later stage