Tokai Guitars

RobRam · 2013-07-31T19:48:36+00:00

I have been reading quite a bit about Tokai guitars, but have never seen them anywhere... I am curious to know who sells them in the Western Cape and what do...

Tokai Guitars

RobbieZ

domhatch wrote: ...although i'd seriously not worry about resale value. you can have my tokais when you pry them from my cold, dead casket.

coz i'm taking them with me
dh|

I cannot agree more :goodtimes:
I have a LC98 Custom LP.
I would have liked to be in the position to own a few more. Maybe father xmas will smile on me 8).

singemonkey

Resale value is a red herring that's starting to get a bit smelly with age. No one backs this up with facts. It's just trotted out as a truism.

Buy a R40K custom shop Gibson. Sell it a year later and you'll be lucky to get much more than R20k 2nd hand. Buy a Tokai for R12K and you'll be lucky to get much more than R6K a year later. Alan's rule of thumb is correct. You lose about 50% after you take it out of the shop. At least in the current market. You could argue the other way and say the absolute loss on a cheaper guitar is less. But really it all depends on what you want. The reality is you don't reduce your proportional loss significantly by going with one of the most popular brands.

People make the huge mistake of using vintage guitars as the marker. Yes. A 1963 Stratocaster has excellent resale - considerably more than it cost even after inflation. A 1998 Strat... not so much. Likewise a 1980 Tokai LS200 will happily go for about R60,000. I'm not going to use that to argue that Tokais have awesome resale value. These are specifically collectible guitars that don't confer value onto every other guitar with the same name on the headstock.

Just try sell a desirable Gibson (not a Goth Studio or one of their other cut-rate models) in mint condition for close to market value (say 70%-80%) and see what offers you get. I've done this. It's a laugh. I'm keeping mine rather.

warrenpridgeon

Personally I don't think one should buy a guitar worrying about the resale value. But that's just me and I have only one guitar and it was a "cheapie"...
Perhaps if I had bought an expensive guitar it would worry me more... I don't know yet.

kp247

singemonkey wrote: Lance told me he's getting some in with the "Reborn Old" label that has been favoured by other Western dealers. Yeah. I'm no fan of the term "love rock." To our Western (Southern) ears it sounds like the name of a toy. Not right for professional quality guitars. Luckily, like the signature on the guitar they're modeled on, you need to be very close to actually read what it says. But I hear you. Little things often put me off too.

Edit: Re the expense, you've got to consider (a) the sticker vs. actual price (which I presume you are) and then consider the fact that all retail guitars cost a lot more here than in the USA. So you can make the same case for every guitar - which I think you did since, if I recall, you bought your LPC from the States?

Price is price I suppose and you're either prepared to pay it or not! Its up to the buyer I guess!

BUT, I have to agree, the Tokai Les Pauls are just out of this world, and I would honestly say that I would have bought a few by now were it not for the ridiculous "Love Rock" on the headstocks. It's in the detail for me. Tokai is cool, but not "Love Rock". Its a professional rock guitar with a tremendous and important historic significance in music and that name just doesn't belong there!

Does someone here not have influence to somehow get it into those thick Japanese brains to do something about it, perhaps for the SA Market? I for one would buy Tokais if that headstock area were just left blank like old Gibsons. Imagine what "Classic 59" or "Classic 60" or even "Les Paul" would look like on there. Obviously the Les Paul name would be protected by Gibson, but what with these guitars being that good why not give them the rights to put it on, I mean there is the Tokai logo there already so there won't be any confusion as to who built the guitar.

I bought my "used" LP Custom directly through eBay without any problem whatsoever for a fantastic price. One of my buds bought 2 LP's through eBay, the same, no problem whatsoever! Anyway, that discussion is not really relevant here and best left for another thread.

Peace everyone!

jt

kp247 wrote: however that dreadful "Love Rock" on the headstock just doesn't work for me. I mean why can they not just put Classic 59 or something similar on the headstock, if they have to put something there at all! ???

I dont have that problem...

singemonkey

kp247 wrote:
singemonkey wrote: Lance told me he's getting some in with the "Reborn Old" label that has been favoured by other Western dealers. Yeah. I'm no fan of the term "love rock." To our Western (Southern) ears it sounds like the name of a toy. Not right for professional quality guitars. Luckily, like the signature on the guitar they're modeled on, you need to be very close to actually read what it says. But I hear you. Little things often put me off too.

Edit: Re the expense, you've got to consider (a) the sticker vs. actual price (which I presume you are) and then consider the fact that all retail guitars cost a lot more here than in the USA. So you can make the same case for every guitar - which I think you did since, if I recall, you bought your LPC from the States?
Price is price I suppose and you're either prepared to pay it or not! Its up to the buyer I guess!

BUT, I have to agree, the Tokai Les Pauls are just out of this world, and I would honestly say that I would have bought a few by now were it not for the ridiculous "Love Rock" on the headstocks. It's in the detail for me. Tokai is cool, but not "Love Rock". Its a professional rock guitar with a tremendous and important historic significance in music and that name just doesn't belong there!

Does someone here not have influence to somehow get it into those thick Japanese brains to do something about it, perhaps for the SA Market? I for one would buy Tokais if that headstock area were just left blank like old Gibsons. Imagine what "Classic 59" or "Classic 60" or even "Les Paul" would look like on there. Obviously the Les Paul name would be protected by Gibson, but what with these guitars being that good why not give them the rights to put it on, I mean there is the Tokai logo there already so there won't be any confusion as to who built the guitar.

I bought my "used" LP Custom directly through eBay without any problem whatsoever for a fantastic price. One of my buds bought 2 LP's through eBay, the same, no problem whatsoever! Anyway, that discussion is not really relevant here and best left for another thread.

Peace everyone!

*Sigh* yes it's relevant because you were talking about new sticker prices as if this were a particular Tokai problem and I'm saying it's an SA retail problem. The fact that you chose to buy your Gibson used suggests that you concur that that guitar was also too expensive to buy new locally.

I in fact spelled out that TokaiSA told me he's bringing in guitars with a different headstock script (how I've missed you kp247).

When it comes to "thick Japanese skulls," it may be of interest to you to note that foreign sales amount to a tiny, tiny percentage of Tokai's sales and, as such, they're not really that concerned with whether the handful of Westerners buying them understand their domestic marketing. It's up to individual distributors to request special changes in line with their markets.

singemonkey

jt, let's see the rest of that ?

Alcatrax

Big G wrote: Last time I was in Paul Bothners in N1 city, they had a few Tokai's at the end of their counter. I haven't been there for about a month or so though, so they may no longer have them? Plumstead also used to have a good few, but I haven't seen any in there in a good long while.

Regards
G!

Still there - nice looking "Less Paul" guitars.

Pity about the Love Rock name, but generally well-respected instruments.

Alcatrax

kp247

jt wrote: I dont have that problem...

THAT looks great! I like that! Classic Look!
If there were LP Standards like that I'll get one!

kp247

singemonkey wrote:
*Sigh* yes it's relevant because you were talking about new sticker prices as if this were a particular Tokai problem and I'm saying it's an SA retail problem. The fact that you chose to buy your Gibson used suggests that you concur that that guitar was also too expensive to buy new locally.

I in fact spelled out that TokaiSA told me he's bringing in guitars with a different headstock script (how I've missed you kp247).

When it comes to "thick Japanese skulls," it may be of interest to you to note that foreign sales amount to a tiny, tiny percentage of Tokai's sales and, as such, they're not really that concerned with whether the handful of Westerners buying them understand their domestic marketing. It's up to individual distributors to request special changes in line with their markets.

Sorry but I don't want to confuse the issue of the guitar that I bought off eBay with the topic of this thread, which is about Tokai guitars! I bought that particular guitar because I was looking for a Gibson bargain, which is what I got! Please don't carry on with this yet again.

It is simply my opinion that these guitars are too expensive! I looked at them a few weeks ago in a shop and they were priced somewhere around 30K for a flame top Standard, which in my view is too expensive for a Japanese copy guitar, and I don't care to debate it any further! As for SA dealer/distributors, why does someone not have the clarity of thought to request a blank headstock for the SA market, or with something other than "Love Rock". It's just an idea! I'm sure that more guitars will be sold internationally if the "Love Rock" logo were to be omitted from the headstock!

joel

kp247 wrote: Sorry but I don't want to confuse the issue of the guitar that I bought off eBay with the topic of this thread, which is about Tokai guitars! I bought that particular guitar because I was looking for a Gibson bargain, which is what I got! Please don't carry on with this yet again.

It is simply my opinion that these guitars are too expensive! I looked at them a few weeks ago in a shop and they were priced somewhere around 30K for a flame top Standard, which in my view is too expensive for a Japanese copy guitar, and I don't care to debate it any further! As for SA dealer/distributors, why does someone not have the clarity of thought to request a blank headstock for the SA market, or with something other than "Love Rock". It's just an idea! I'm sure that more guitars will be sold internationally if the "Love Rock" logo were to be omitted from the headstock!

You saw this in a South African shop ? ? . You should pm the name of the shop to the distibutor ( Tokai SA ) , so that he can contact them to rectify that.
In the meantime if you want a correct indication of pricing , go to TOMS Sandton , they have a whole lot you can look at that are correctly priced. 8)

kp247

Joe Moore wrote: In the meantime if you want a correct indication of pricing , go to TOMS Sandton , they have a whole lot you can look at that are correctly priced. 8)

Will do thanks!
Actually going into town next week! ?

singemonkey

kp247 wrote:
singemonkey wrote:
*Sigh* yes it's relevant because you were talking about new sticker prices as if this were a particular Tokai problem and I'm saying it's an SA retail problem. The fact that you chose to buy your Gibson used suggests that you concur that that guitar was also too expensive to buy new locally.

I in fact spelled out that TokaiSA told me he's bringing in guitars with a different headstock script (how I've missed you kp247).

When it comes to "thick Japanese skulls," it may be of interest to you to note that foreign sales amount to a tiny, tiny percentage of Tokai's sales and, as such, they're not really that concerned with whether the handful of Westerners buying them understand their domestic marketing. It's up to individual distributors to request special changes in line with their markets.
Sorry but I don't want to confuse the issue of the guitar that I bought off eBay with the topic of this thread, which is about Tokai guitars! I bought that particular guitar because I was looking for a Gibson bargain, which is what I got! Please don't carry on with this yet again.

It is simply my opinion that these guitars are too expensive! I looked at them a few weeks ago in a shop and they were priced somewhere around 30K for a flame top Standard, which in my view is too expensive for a Japanese copy guitar, and I don't care to debate it any further! As for SA dealer/distributors, why does someone not have the clarity of thought to request a blank headstock for the SA market, or with something other than "Love Rock". It's just an idea! I'm sure that more guitars will be sold internationally if the "Love Rock" logo were to be omitted from the headstock!

You know kp247, you continually leave me in doubt as to whether you're a huge troll or you just have very poor reading comprehension. I really can't figure it out one way or the other. I'm inclined to think the former, but you constantly leave me in doubt. Telling us what we can and can't say on this forum on which you are not a moderator sounds like trolling to get our backs up (I'm used to trolls, so I'm unfussed). But then your ignoring the point that I addressed twice and handily highlighted sounds like a comprehension problem. Perhaps you can enlighten us (although, if you're a troll, you'll do the opposite ?)

kp247

singemonkey wrote: You know kp247, you continually leave me in doubt as to whether you're a huge troll or you just have very poor reading comprehension. I really can't figure it out one way or the other. I'm inclined to think the former, but you constantly leave me in doubt. Telling us what we can and can't say on this forum on which you are not a moderator sounds like trolling to get our backs up (I'm used to trolls, so I'm unfussed). But then your ignoring the point that I addressed twice and handily highlighted sounds like a comprehension problem. Perhaps you can enlighten us (although, if you're a troll, you'll do the opposite ?)

? No! Don't want to carry on! I've had my say . . . . several times already!

Lets rather see more of those lovely Tokai flame tops! But no "Love Rock" headstocks please! :?

singemonkey

kp247 wrote:
singemonkey wrote: You know kp247, you continually leave me in doubt as to whether you're a huge troll or you just have very poor reading comprehension. I really can't figure it out one way or the other. I'm inclined to think the former, but you constantly leave me in doubt. Telling us what we can and can't say on this forum on which you are not a moderator sounds like trolling to get our backs up (I'm used to trolls, so I'm unfussed). But then your ignoring the point that I addressed twice and handily highlighted sounds like a comprehension problem. Perhaps you can enlighten us (although, if you're a troll, you'll do the opposite ?)
? No! Don't want to carry on! I've had my say . . . . several times already!

Lets rather see more of those lovely Tokai flame tops! But no "Love Rock" headstocks please! :?

Without ever acknowledging the responses.

?

I think you'll find people will post whatsoever they please even without your permission. The horror. ?

Danny-B

I think GFSA needs a derivative of Godwin's Law whenever there is discussion of Tokai guitars. Something like, 'As the length of a thread featuring discussion of Tokai increases, the probability of the thread turning into a flame war approaches 1.'

DonovanB

Buying a guitar for resale should be left up to collectors.

Buying a guitar to play is for players. Decide who you want to be and be honest with yourself.

I think buying a clone of a guitar to act like you have something like the real thing is a pretty weak idea. It's not being true to yourself IMHO.

Nobody here will flame you for buying a Tokai, an SX or any other brand. (except Johnson, starfire, first act and red sharkfins)

Maaaaybe Ibanez too

PS in Japan it's pronounced Ruv-Lock... *I'll get my coat*

Chocklit_Thunda

Donovan Banks wrote: Buying a guitar for resale should be left up to collectors.

Buying a guitar to play is for players. Decide who you want to be and be honest with yourself.

I think buying a clone of a guitar to act like you have something like the real thing is a pretty weak idea. It's not being true to yourself IMHO.

Nobody here will flame you for buying a Tokai, an SX or any other brand. (except Johnson, starfire, first act and red sharkfins)

Maaaaybe Ibanez too

PS in Japan it's pronounced Ruv-Lock... *I'll get my coat*

Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

AlanRatcliffe

All posts regarding a particular sticker deleted - infringement of trademark and thus illegal, so against the rules to post.

Sorry I was so slow responding.

MikeM

Thanks Alan!