Importing a Vintage Guitar

Greg

Hello!

So I have a contact in Vancouver, Canada that is possibly going to sell my one of his guitars. It's a Gibson ES-125 TDC which is a guitar made in the 1960s. It's certainly a fine instrument and I'm well assured of the owner's passion and care for his instruments, it's definitely in good nick!

My concerns are the following:

-How would the guitar fair being shipped to SA?
-How do duties work on vintage instruments? I assume they apply, but as values shift, what's the best way to do this properly as I would be paying a private price?

It'll most likely look like this:

Chocklit_Thunda

Greg wrote: Hello!

So I have a contact in Vancouver, Canada that is possibly going to sell my one of his guitars. It's a Gibson ES-125 TDC which is a guitar made in the 1960s. It's certainly a fine instrument and I'm well assured of the owner's passion and care for his instruments, it's definitely in good nick!

My concerns are the following:

-How would the guitar fair being shipped to SA?
-How do duties work on vintage instruments? I assume they apply, but as values shift, what's the best way to do this properly as I would be paying a private price?

It'll most likely look like this:

No import duties on instruments. You pay VAT on the value + 10%.
If its packed properly it will(should) be fine.
I can PM you my dads details, he's a clearing agent and can help you through the whole process if you'd like.
He's brought in instruments before and if they're cleared as second hand I think it's less.

ThomasN

Just please whatever you do, DONT use USPS.
Theyve just lost my 2001 Les Paul Studio Amber, Desert Burst. This after forking out for an Express International fee.
Its been gone almost 15 days. You cannot email them if you do not live in America, as you need a state and a zip code to process the mail, so I called them instead. They have no idea where it is, and it exited NY 2 weeks ago. Their tracking you pay for, is over once the package is placed on a plane and leaves. Thereafter its dead, until customs scan it here.

Ive had success in the past with UPS and Fedex. They are slightly more expensive, but are worth the money.
The packages are taken care of, and arrive on time, plus you are able to track them from the word go, until it reaches your front door.
Either that, or go through a 3'rd party shipping facilitator, who will take care of the packaging & transport for you.

Also be aware of the exchange rate at the moment. As far as I know youre looking at paying about 3k upwards import duties on it. That is unless its marked as a gift, or as "used" ie. Secondhand.

I hope this helps.

kapepper

ThomasN wrote: Just please whatever you do, DONT use USPS.
Theyve just lost my 2001 Les Paul Studio Amber, Desert Burst. This after forking out for an Express International fee.
Its been gone almost 15 days. You cannot email them if you do not live in America, as you need a state and a zip code to process the mail, so I called them instead. They have no idea where it is, and it exited NY 2 weeks ago. Their tracking you pay for, is over once the package is placed on a plane and leaves. Thereafter its dead, until customs scan it here.

Ive had success in the past with UPS and Fedex. They are slightly more expensive, but are worth the money.
The packages are taken care of, and arrive on time, plus you are able to track them from the word go, until it reaches your front door.
Either that, or go through a 3'rd party shipping facilitator, who will take care of the packaging & transport for you.

Also be aware of the exchange rate at the moment. As far as I know youre looking at paying about 3k upwards import duties on it. That is unless its marked as a gift, or as "used" ie. Secondhand.

I hope this helps.

hi, regarding your message:

USPS is handled by SA postal servoices, meaning that the USPS tracking at one times stops and then it is in the hands of the SA postal services

you can call your post office with the USPS tracking number and they would give you then the location of your guitar

prob it is sitting in post office waiting for you to pick it up

@greg: i would never buy a vintage guitar outside SA, so much opportunities to buy them in SA

ThomasN

kapepper wrote: hi, regarding your message:

USPS is handled by SA postal servoices, meaning that the USPS tracking at one times stops and then it is in the hands of the SA postal services

you can call your post office with the USPS tracking number and they would give you then the location of your guitar

prob it is sitting in post office waiting for you to pick it up

@greg: i would never buy a vintage guitar outside SA, so much opportunities to buy them in SA

The tracking ends at the point they leave the states, and will only begin again, once it hits customs here, and they re-scan it.
The problem is, where it goes and what happens to it in between. Ive contacted American customs, EMS here, customs here as well as our P.O, it has never entered the country, but did leave NY almost 15 days ago. When it enters customs here it also gets a new country iso code (ZA) so tracking numbers will change. If you do get hold of USPS, they kinda just shrug their shoulders at you and go... well thats how it is... sorry we cant help.

MikeM

This is South Africa. Chill out for another week or 2. Parcels have arrived for me from withing around a week to literally 4 months.

ThomasN

Mike wrote: This is South Africa. Chill out for another week or 2. Parcels have arrived for me from withing around a week to literally 4 months.

Except I paid over 3k for an expedited service for it to be delivered within 5 days.
Ive contacted the seller and requested a refund, including shipping costs, as they were the one's that insisted on using USPS. I would have preferred UPS or Fedex.
Seller has an account with them, which is great if you live in the states, but not so great anywhere else. :-[
They can recoup the shipping from USPS, I cant.

Sorry for jacking your thread OP. :-\

Greg

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: No import duties on instruments. You pay VAT on the value + 10%.
If its packed properly it will(should) be fine.
I can PM you my dads details, he's a clearing agent and can help you through the whole process if you'd like.
He's brought in instruments before and if they're cleared as second hand I think it's less.

That's good to know!

It's at least 50-60 years old so I'm pretty sure it'll clear as second hand!

Would definitely appreciate your dad's help if that's cool. You're welcome to PM me!

kapepper wrote:
@greg: i would never buy a vintage guitar outside SA, so much opportunities to buy them in SA

I definitely agree with you, in this case however the previous owner is an idol of mine and as the guitar would be an investment instrument, getting HIS guitar (and hopefully a signature on it!) would really be something special for me! If it falls through and looks impossible, then it will be a bummer, but if it works out, it could really be such a great buy!

Sorry to hear about your axe ThomasN. Hopefully it arrives soon and there's just a miscommunication between the shipping companies!

kevjones

Firstly to the OP who cant find his guitar, sorry to hear that bud, have never had a problem with USPS and have shipped in with them many a time.

In terms of the Canada guitar just one precautionary step for shipping. Make sure it is in a case if you can and ask your buddie to de-tune it at least 3 - 4 winds.

Tokai-SA

kevjones wrote:
In terms of the Canada guitar just one precautionary step for shipping. Make sure it is in a case if you can and ask your buddie to de-tune it at least 3 - 4 winds.

It's interesting.
In May I shipped 5 guitars to the USA and Europe.
I forgot to detune them, all left in tune and arrived in tune, the buyers were amazed. ?

One precaution I do take when shipping.
I pack bubble wrap nice and tight around the headstock area...I've had guitars arrive in the US with badly damaged boxes, but the guitars have been perfect.

kevjones

Ja Tokai I never worried about de-tuning either and mine have also stayed almost in tune but I have had an experience when a box was loaded in a hold and not inside a container, 3 strings were broken and a 1 started fraying. Andy told me it was due to the cold. Up until then I thought the cargo hold was the same temp as the aircraft cabin, I never even gave it a thought. I agree 100% with the bubble wrap on the head stock.

Greg

kevjones wrote: Ja Tokai I never worried about de-tuning either and mine have also stayed almost in tune but I have had an experience when a box was loaded in a hold and not inside a container, 3 strings were broken and a 1 started fraying. Andy told me it was due to the cold. Up until then I thought the cargo hold was the same temp as the aircraft cabin, I never even gave it a thought. I agree 100% with the bubble wrap on the head stock.

I'll definitely get him to make sure the headstock is properly secure. Also, I think having the strings at tension when the guitar is in the air and gets very cold must do something to the wood of the guitar. I always de-tune mine... I mean, the guitar doesn't need to be in tune to fly... can't hurt! I just imagine all the wood expanding and contracting under the temperature differences and then being tossed about by people who don't really care that it's a fragile item. The machine is about 60 years old! It was born before my dad was born...

Thanks for all your help so far! Now it's just to see what the shipping will cost me.

MikeM

My logic is that the truss rod is counteracting the force of the strings.. If you loosen the strings, the rod has nothing acting against it. If I were to ship a guitar, I'd just tune it a full step down to be on the safe side both ways.

Greg

Mike wrote: My logic is that the truss rod is counteracting the force of the strings.. If you loosen the strings, the rod has nothing acting against it. If I were to ship a guitar, I'd just tune it a full step down to be on the safe side both ways.

Word

free2rhyme

ThomasN wrote: Just please whatever you do, DONT use USPS.
Theyve just lost my 2001 Les Paul Studio Amber, Desert Burst. This after forking out for an Express International fee.
Its been gone almost 15 days. You cannot email them if you do not live in America, as you need a state and a zip code to process the mail, so I called them instead. They have no idea where it is, and it exited NY 2 weeks ago. Their tracking you pay for, is over once the package is placed on a plane and leaves. Thereafter its dead, until customs scan it here.

Ive had success in the past with UPS and Fedex. They are slightly more expensive, but are worth the money.
The packages are taken care of, and arrive on time, plus you are able to track them from the word go, until it reaches your front door.
Either that, or go through a 3'rd party shipping facilitator, who will take care of the packaging & transport for you.

Also be aware of the exchange rate at the moment. As far as I know youre looking at paying about 3k upwards import duties on it. That is unless its marked as a gift, or as "used" ie. Secondhand.

I hope this helps.

Hi Thomas, so if you are importing through USPS, the tracking info ends once it leaves USA shores. Once it arrives, it converts to EMS here in SA. Go onto their website and call them, give them your USPS tracking number, they will give you a local tracking number starting with "ii" or "CJ"(normally). You can then track it on their EMS website. I've imported a lot, had an issue with a comic book coming in from USA and thats how I found it

Give it a try.

To the main OP, as previously said, no import charges on musical instruments but 10-12% VAT on value of instrument. Shipping do not use USPS, Go courier, its about $250-$350 from the states, thats what I have paid in the past but it arrives in 3 days. I've used both UPS and Fedex not problem. The courier company will contact you with the Vat fees a day before you get your instrument to arrange payment method and delivery

Chocklit_Thunda

Mike wrote: My logic is that the truss rod is counteracting the force of the strings.. If you loosen the strings, the rod has nothing acting against it. If I were to ship a guitar, I'd just tune it a full step down to be on the safe side both ways.

Not really. If the guitar has a decent ever so slight neck bow, as guitars should, the truss rod is actually loosened (this is on old guitars with the 1 way truss rod) and not really acting against the neck. If the neck is badly bowed and the rod is tightened to bring it back to being straight, then it's acting against the neck. The standard truss rod is loosened just enough to allow the strings to pull it into that ever so slight bow.

MikeM

Chocklit_Thunda wrote:Not really. If the guitar has a decent ever so slight neck bow, as guitars should, the truss rod is actually loosened (this is on old guitars with the 1 way truss rod) and not really acting against the neck. If the neck is badly bowed and the rod is tightened to bring it back to being straight, then it's acting against the neck. The standard truss rod is loosened just enough to allow the strings to pull it into that ever so slight bow.

No. Firstly, it's a 50 year old jazz box. One might argue wood memory or things like that, but that's not accurate. Most likely he'd have 11s on there, maybe higher. That's 50+kg of tension. The neck WILL bend over time, which is why the trussrod is there. The truss rod is generally tensioned against a curved piece of wood, counteracting the compression in the front of the neck, which keeps the forces a little more regular throughout the neck. When those forces are imbalanced (heavier or lighter strings), the inflection changes. It's really as easy as that. By your logic you're saying that going from 13s to 9s will require no change in trussrod adjustment. That's incorrect.

Chocklit_Thunda

Ok I admit I completely forgot about the fact that it was a 50 year old guitar ? I guess after that long it would definitely have been tightened a few times

what I was saying (meaning to say) was that unstringing it or detuning it won't make a difference because the truss rod would only be acting against the excess forces that the neck can't handle and not the full 50+kg
But I guess my point applies more to newer guitars as opposed to a 50+y/o guitar

MikeM

This actually is a can of worms. Having seen a couple back-bowed necks however, it's something I avoid.

I'm actually hoping a certain Gearhead chimes in on this topic as I'm not 100% sure if I am correct, but I don't think how you're looking at it is correct either. The trussrod is not a straightness control. You control the amount of tension in it, which applies an almost constant force outwards, whether there are strings on it or not. If it wants to be straight and there are no strings to keep the forces in check, it'll slowly straighten and the neck will bow backwards, especially if it's tight enough to handle 11s or 13s that are typically on jazz boxes.

Gearhead, Alan, care to chime in? I'd love to be corrected if I am wrong.

Chocklit_Thunda

Agreed... I think we should both wait until someone with more experience chimes in. I've always seen a truss rod as a neck straightener that only counteracts the pull of the strings as it pulls against its nut and anchor (tightened) and exerts less/no force when loosened
For all we know we're probably saying the same thing in different ways and just don't understand each other ???