Mika's non Rant, Kanye West... hmmmm

MIKA-the-better-one

Yaya its been a long time since a thread made by me.

As result of another thread and some interaction with people in walks of life I gigured I would open a discussion as to what we as people perceived as edgy/ new/ good and Rock n roll....

Ideally the word "Rock n Roll" in my mind leans back toward your typical ACDC, Journey, and your other classic rock types.
However I dont see that being Rock n Roll anymore, really to me its a norm, its old its relatively dead to me. Any resurgence of Classic rock to me is one filled with Cliches and, frankly, does nothing for me.

A lot of the people who grew up pushing what we know as rock have grown up and thus rock has fallen into a suburban lifestyle. Its not new, not edgy, and not rock n roll.

So what we have is a word or idea with different meaning to different generations.

I tried to think of a few really new acts which for me personify Rock n Roll currently in today.
No one would think that Kanye West would put out possibly the most challenging piece of popular music. He is an Artist, and is pushing his own genre of "rap" but in a pretty rock n roll way. His damn title JEEZUS, and proclaiming himself God, Pretty crazy pretty out there.
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I would call this less of a Rant more of a " hmmm guess what I was thinking"

Warren

I hear what you're saying about what it means to be "rock & roll", and I agree. I myself am so out of touch with Rock music in general that a lot of the newer bands like the Arctic Monkeys sound strange to me. Must be getting old.

Personally, I don't think Kanye West is a particularly great example, I think he thinks way too much of himself and is happy to let that rabid narcissism reflect in his music. But then, to be a big rock-star you do need to have a sense of your own legend.

His lyrics in that song are a bit laughable though: he references the famous 300 warriors in the battle of Thermopylae (who were Spartans, as any Gerard Butler fan can attest) but he calls them "Romans" and talks about "Trojans"...there were no Romans or Trojans at Thermopylae, and the mythical (and conspicuously completely different) Trojan wars had nothing to do with Romans either (or the 300)...it's all pretty hilarious ?

Unless I got that reference wrong, because I'm not sure what the hell he's on about in that song. ?

Chocklit_Thunda

ShreddySmurf wrote: I hear what you're saying about what it means to be "rock & roll", and I agree. I myself am so out of touch with Rock music in general that a lot of the newer bands like the Arctic Monkeys sound strange to me. Must be getting old.

Personally, I don't think Kanye West is a particularly great example, I think he thinks way too much of himself and is happy to let that rabid narcissism reflect in his music. But then, to be a big rock-star you do need to have a sense of your own legend.

His lyrics in that song are a bit laughable though: he references the famous 300 warriors in the battle of Thermopylae (who were Spartans, as any Gerard Butler fan can attest) but he calls them "Romans" and talks about "Trojans"...there were no Romans or Trojans at Thermopylae, and the mythical (and conspicuously completely different) Trojan wars had nothing to do with Romans either (or the 300)...it's all pretty hilarious ?

Unless I got that reference wrong, because I'm not sure what the hell he's on about in that song. ?

Nope I'm with you on this one... All the time I spent learning about ancient civilisations and then Kanye came along and rewrote500 years of history in under 5 minutes ?

My historical OCD had me cringing as he shouted out those fallacies

The backing track was ok though

Warren

Back on topic though:

Does KW's track sound edgy? Does it have that raw feel to it? It certainly does, I reckon.

Is he the kind of guy who doesn't give a shit and is happy to get up in peoples' faces? He certainly is, and I guess in some ways that does make him more of a "rock star" than, say, Chad Kroeger, who fronts one of the world's biggest selling rock bands.

Lady Gaga is another example: completely out on the edge as a personality, although her music is actually pretty conventional synth-pop with great hooks and singing.

Bob-Dubery

Whoah! He mentioned Hitler.

I'm not sure what the argument was, but he lost it.

I don't think it's rock 'n roll in the same way I don't think flamenco is rock 'n roll. And so what? Rock doesn't always have energy, and music that is not rock can have plenty (as I witnessed last year at a flamenco show in Madrid and a folk show, accordions and all, in Banbury).

I liked the energy.

[deleted]

:applause: Yay to Non Rant!

Its not new, not edgy, and not rock n roll.

Isn't this where we say "Rock and Roll is dead, long live Rock and Roll".

WEell, I could only hear "live in the moment......out of control".... so..... hmmmmm.... I'll just nod and smile. I liked the barking dogs. Wicked.

Reinhard

That video has a really dark and sinister feel to it and I will need a translator with the lyrics. Interesting to see the Rob Halford style leather jacket. Seems he discovered a NIN album and thought "Hey, I can do that".

On a side-note, calling himself "God" is disturbing in itself. I think that dude has been drinking too much of his own Kool-aid.

AlanRatcliffe

Don't give a damn about him or what he's said or done. The cynic in me says it's all likely promotional stunts and marketing anyway - like everyone else in any commercial style of music. The true loons are difficult to separate from the carefully crafted and calculated facsimiles these days.

I'm in this for the music, and I do like the track...

[deleted]

"true loons" now there's a name for a band

studmissile

Naah he's only human like the rest of us...Eina!

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guidothepimmp

Lol

You know what the steel panther lads say about kanye... now that's rock n roll..

Or is it... :?

AlanRatcliffe

studmissile wrote: Naah he's only human like the rest of us...Eina!
Q: Kanye West Walks Into Pole | Bar On The Street

So you're saying he's more rock and pole than rock and roll? ?

studmissile

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
studmissile wrote: Naah he's only human like the rest of us...Eina!
Q: Kanye West Walks Into Pole | Bar On The Street
So you're saying he's more rock and pole than rock and roll? ?

EXACTLY! .... Very Good! ? ? ? ? ? ?

chrisbark

I have to agree with Mika, I like the song and to me its edgy and rock and roll.

The Romans line ... there are some theories out there about why it's not a mistake ... but who knows, IMO most lyricists use poetic license to write lyrics that work. I mean who listens to Kanye for a history lesson? Was he supposed to say: I keep it 300 like the spartans, look at my shirt rhinestones and tartans ?

As for the Trojans ... The line is 300 b1tches, where the trojans ... he is talking about trojan condoms (which is the number one brand mentioned by rappers)
I have problems with historical revisionism but this is a pop song, and to quote the man himself "We rappers is role models: we rap, we don't think"

Warren

chrisbark wrote: I have to agree with Mika, I like the song and to me its edgy and rock and roll.

The Romans line ... there are some theories out there about why it's not a mistake ... but who knows, IMO most lyricists use poetic license to write lyrics that work. I mean who listens to Kanye for a history lesson? Was he supposed to say: I keep it 300 like the spartans, look at my shirt rhinestones and tartans ?
As for the Trojans ... The line is 300 b1tches, where the trojans ... he is talking about trojan condoms (which is the number one brand mentioned by rappers)
I have problems with historical revisionism but this is a pop song, and to quote the man himself "We rappers is role models: we rap, we don't think"

Quite obviously I don't listen to Kanye West hoping for a history lesson. :rolleyes: I DO have a problem with people talking a pile of kak wherever I may find it...should we hold pop stars less accountable for at least being accurate when they're trying to toss in a reference? What's next? "We be kickin' and winnin' da war like da Confederates!" ?

Yeah, "role models" that don't think. Sure, that's exactly what everyone needs...

chrisbark

Rappers, rockers schlebs in general are people and they all talk kak and shouldn't be anyone's role model (unless you want to be a rapper, rocker or schleb that is).

Yeah, "role models" that don't think. Sure, that's exactly what everyone needs...

AFAIK he is saying that rappers just say what's on their mind and they are held up as role models.
This is a statement of fact and a reflection of society and reality, and possibly a warning not to take anything that comes out of his mouth as gospel, it is not a recommendation for how things should be or what everyone needs.

It is all subjective and I just think Kanye is one of those people we love to hate just like Justin Bieber.

Also expecting any American to have a good grasp of historical events that happened thousands of years ago in another country ... unrealistic expectations IMO.

ThomasN

Kanye who? :?

Norman86

North... North west! ?
Coz thats so rockstar its un farkin believable!

Chabenda

chrisbark wrote: Rappers, rockers schlebs in general are people and they all talk kak and shouldn't be anyone's role model (unless you want to be a rapper, rocker or schleb that is).

Yeah, "role models" that don't think. Sure, that's exactly what everyone needs...
AFAIK he is saying that rappers just say what's on their mind and they are held up as role models.
This is a statement of fact and a reflection of society and reality, and possibly a warning not to take anything that comes out of his mouth as gospel, it is not a recommendation for how things should be or what everyone needs.

It is all subjective and I just think Kanye is one of those people we love to hate just like Justin Bieber.

Also expecting any American to have a good grasp of historical events that happened thousands of years ago in another country ... unrealistic expectations IMO.

Said with a Southern drawl - "Oh WOW, you're from AFRIKAaaaaa? How long did it take you to drive here???" Eish.........

Bob-Dubery

chrisbark wrote: Also expecting any American to have a good grasp of historical events that happened thousands of years ago in another country ... unrealistic expectations IMO.

In my experience the matter of Americans and ignorance about the world and history is greatly overdone. Or most other folks are just as deficient in that regard. Take your pick. One might argue that they tend to be parochial in their outlook, but that's hardly a behaviour trait that is confined to Americans.

Billy Bragg, most definitely not American, famously muddled a piece of his own country's history in a song when he confused St Swithin's Day with St Crispin's Day. Bernie Taupin (not American) got Geronimo's death wrong in a song. U2 (not American) got Martin Luther King's death wrong in "Pride (In the Name Of Love)". Iron Maiden (not American) did not get Alexander The Great entirely right.