Reinecke
A lot has changed, and we are no longer an exclusive music scene consisting of local artist and afrikaans niche markets.
We have evolved, we see enough international bands here that your average person would not be stupid enough to settle for a low rate band that has nothing special to them, and that suck live!
When it comes to the metal scene, it's disapointing to say the least! People do not understand that they are competing with the best, not just with other local bands! If you have been to ramfest you will know that the competition is steep! I've seen the like of Bring me the Horizon, that just totally destroyed every metal band out there (and I'm not even a fan.) Then there's In Flames, that are also a force to be reckoned with!
The only metal band I've seen that can compete locally with international acts, is a band called Red Helen! The talent, the vibe and the technical aspect is there!
When it comes to the rest of the bands, I think it's safe to say that we need something original and defining. Yes there are good bands out there, but 90 percent are generic, good, but nothing new! Artists world wide are doing something new, and that sets them apart! Artist like Bastile and Lana Del ray. newcomers that actually change the game up a bit!
There are bands that nail it though, bands like Shaddowclub!
Then when it comes to the Afrikaans scene...It's the same old story, catchy songs, but nothing special! And the bands are even worse, they think just because they are afrikaans and they cater to a different market, that they don't compete with extremely talented musicians and vocalists!
If you agree or don't prove me wrong! post videos and songs!
Let the discussion begin!
Just to start things of, this is a cover me and Miqnon van Jaarsveld did of a lana del rey song! Recorded @ Jo Ellis
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AlanRatcliffe
Don't forget that the bands we see coming here are the cream of the crop and there are a thousand mediocre bands for every good one.
Tokai-SA
Have you heard of these guys, Newton's 2nd law?
The lead singer, John Mani has one of the best most unique voices I've heard in a long while coming out of SAfrica.
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Mixerboy
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Don't forget that the bands we see coming here are the cream of the crop and there are a thousand mediocre bands for every good one.
I agree, if you look at it from a ratio point of view, say; for every 1000 bands there might be 1 decent one, here we might not even have a 1000 bands in total so no real good one yet, whereas in the in the USA they have thousands and thousands of bands so they pump out what seems to be quite a lot of good ones. (not to mention a lot of countries including the US still have pretty good music programs in school that you can take instead of biology)
[deleted]
eh, I think it depends on where you go. You may also find, like most of our best, they get exported...
Newton's 2nd sound good.
Tokai-SA
Don't worry, Rabbit will get back together. ?
[deleted]
I know I can google this, but who's Rabbit?
I wikied them, still, I will probably never really KNOW who they were.
The context for saying that was that I was looking up a musician/ band that I accidentally saw at The Mahogany Room. I thought they'd make a nice example of "good local musicians". They were top quality, but mysteriously vague about WHO THEY ACTUALLY WERE. The guy just gave his name and said "you can look it up on facebook". I take it the people there knew who he was. Well, of course I forgot his name, then happened to see it again last night and then looked him up now, to find a clip, and saw he was playing in Milan a little while back(oh okay, somewhere Europe...). Clearly he wasn't hankering for support from the local scene, but then again a super group from Russia came to play at some hotdog shop down the road from me, so the whole world has gone crazy and I like it.
Bob-Dubery
Viccy wrote
I know I can google this, but who's Rabbit?
70s SA band, launch pad for the careers of Trevor Rabin and Duncan Faure. Had big local hits with "Dingley's Bookshop" (the theme song from a local TV show), "Tribal Fence" (a Ramsay McKay song, with Margaret Singana guesting) and "Charlie" (which Rabin wrote about, for and to his dog. Ahem).
kevjones
Dont forget Ronnie and Neil. I still rate Neil as one of the most "in time" drummer I have ever heard. Ronnie is still in SA I believe. Thinking back we had some excellent club bands in those days that were great to drink to and excellent entertainment. Rabbit was our super band. Trevor went on to play with Yes before settling in the states and doing all the movie stuff. Not sure what happened to Duncan after he joined the Bay City Rollers.
Remember these bands.
Ballyhoo.
Evoid.
Mcully Workshop.
And 100 more around that time.
Bob-Dubery
I've been to several, mostly small scale gigs in the UK the last few years. They gots lots of big names there too, and more than we get here. Yet the standard at the sort of low key gig that I like to go is very high - not just the Martin Simpsons of the world, but the support acts too.
The problem is not big name acts coming here.
In the 80s, when very few big name acts toured here I used to go to a lot of gigs. For me that was a great era for SA rock music, and I saw a lot of good bands giving strong performances. So local musicians CAN do it.
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. I can't speak for heavy metal, but the last couple of years I've seen some very good local gigs featuring local musicians. In particular I remember the Tony Cox/Steve Newman "Return of the Road Warriors" show and the "Singer/Songwriter" show at the Jo'burg Theatre with Matthew van der Want, Gil Hockman, Laurie Levine and Chris Letcher. Both really, really good shows. A few times over the last year or so I've seen Cape Town performer Joshua Grierson and he's pretty good. Check mentions here of Dan Patlanksy and Albert Frost. There's loads of good jazz musicians in this country. Lots of good acts in the townships. At TJ's (acoustic club in Jo'burg) I've put the Hinds Brothers, Them Particles, Nechama Brodie, Shotgun Tori. Shannon Hope and Thomas Selmer-Olsen (Jesse Clegg's guitar player) on the stage. I've seen some good acts on Andy McGibbon's monthly "forum". Recently I saw Guy Buttery and Nibs van der Spuy - good show.
I haven't mentioned members of this forum who are gigging players in various genres, some of whom have also done me the favour of playing on my bills at TJ's and who have done themselves proud up there.
We've got good players and bands in this country.
The mistake, I think, is to think of the local market as metal, Afrikaans pop and maybe the Barnyard theatres. There's more than that going on.
I think there are problems with venues and with payment. Too many venues want to have live music but as cheaply as possible, and they get what they pay for. There might be problems facing venues in terms of licensing and noise regulations.
In Jo'burg the thing to do is to move back into the city center. Some areas of that have been rejuvenated and are attractive, safe and well run. More importantly, there is lots of what used to be office and storage place there - the sort of space you could rent out.
In fact, in the late 70s when disco and cover bands were becoming very popular and bands playing their own music were not getting into clubs these were the sorts of things that people did. I remember going to a gig in some unused commercial space down town that featured Corporal Punishment and Flash Harry. The Asylum Kids got too big for the clubs that would book them, so they started renting some of the side rooms in the city hall for gigs. These were maybe 1000 capacity, with a stage and a bar in place. And it was in a part of town that was full of office properties rather than residential space and so there was nobody to complain if you played loud.
The biggest problem I see in Jo'burg is AUDIENCES. They won't go to shows. Well, some will, but not enough. Good acts play to ridiculously small audiences - so they don't make money and they don't feel encouraged and so they get busy with their golf or their studies or their 9 to 5.
Recently I read a copy of the local edition of Rolling Stone. I was surprised by how much of the content was local. What does that tell you? It tells me that there IS a music scene here. People who write and perform and record music.
Bob-Dubery
kevjones wrote
ont forget Ronnie and Neil. I still rate Neil as one of the most "in time" drummer I have ever heard.
Neil Cloud drummed in Peter Frampton's band for a while.
[deleted]
I think a lot of those kinds of bands rely on being a certain kind of band, at a certain place, at a certain time, with a certain crowd.. ie. context. Are we talking about the context of South African music in the global scene, or are we talking about the musicians here?
The context we have and what we're creating seems to be musicians trying to mimic what is, sorry to say, American (down to the freaking accent) yet popular; or the other extreme of taking a local language and exploiting it's uniqueness. The third option: social insight that's unique to South Africa great to drink to and that's new. Quite a toughie, but at least we have options hey!
Ooh, and I have to carry on. Like Bob said, the music is GOOD here. And it's not just the big names(I don't know why, but I seem to actually prefer the lesser knowns). I have to interpret your question as more about the "scene" than the musicians. I think for the "scene" to cohere more and thus become stronger internationally, (and have more impact locally), it's down to the musicians being more supportive, open minded and informed of each other.
DaFiz
Nice TokaiSA... 8)
Not exactly such a unique voice on the RSA music scene, rather a voice that is more readily found in jazz bands.
It's unique in a rock band yes indeed methinx. :-\
Tokai-SA
Viccy wrote
I know I can google this, but who's Rabbit?
Remember this song?...written by Trevor Rabin who also wrote the entire 90125 YES album.
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[deleted]
Ah, now THAT I know.
ThomasN
Trevor Rabin was a legend in this country, from way back when.
There have been quite a few actually. I just think South Africa doesnt see firsthand what happens, once bands leave, and start overseas.
Someone told me the other day, they were on a buying trip in London, and by complete accident happened to see a concert advertised for an old S.A band Evoid.
It took me about 10 minutes to try remember who they were even.
But take currently, and over the last few years, this artist:
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-players/dilana/
No one here most likely even knows who she is... yet she was fronting L.A Guns (Traci Guns ex Hollywood Rose aka Guns 'n Roses) for a little while, was teamed with John Corabi. With that C.V I reckon she's making an impact ?
BTW her surname is Van Vuuren, and is pretty much Afrikaans ?
Have a read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilana
DonovanB
Think back to what was coming out in the 90's. How much better is our music now? I also think our pop music scene has improved in leaps and bounds with the likes of Chiano Sky, while not technically much, has that certain something in the music. It doesn't hurt that she's a complete belter. Think too of The Arrows, Goldfish, Goodluck, Pascal & Pearce etc...
Just because the metal scene is rusty doesn't mean the rest is.
Generally with music people vote with their wallets. And opinions differ, I thoroughly despise the Parlotones but others clearly don't.
IMHO this whole discussion is a waste of time as it will always come back to what you prefer. we could collectively list hundreds of personal examples of when someone likes something you think is utter crud.
IceCreamMan
tell you what , I am excited bout the potential of ZA music...2 new venues in my area opening up (or have opened) is the acoustic café just off beyers and the old cool runnings is reopening under a new name and will feature live music...so I hope we the punters make them viable business ventures an get to see loads of live music..then also rumours is doing well and corner house, well conrer house is the corner house hey..
blues café in boksburg(think that's the name) also a recent opening , vibrant times.........
up to us ,the public, to get out there and support the venues who in turn support the bands.....
Rabbitt - just before my time really but a ZA mega group .....
Lethe
Where is this Acoustic Cafe? Sounds like I need to go there!
And in general I think that our music scene has improved. Especially the pop scene. There is some decent SA pop on the radio and There seems to be more backing from labels such as EMI. In terms of Rock or Metal, we do also have some really good bands like Hokum and Poverty Of Ideals who are quite interesting. But like Don said, it's a matter of preference.
IceCreamMan wrote
tell you what , I am excited bout the potential of ZA music...2 new venues in my area opening up (or have opened) is the acoustic café just off beyers and the old cool runnings is reopening under a new name and will feature live music...so I hope we the punters make them viable business ventures an get to see loads of live music..then also rumours is doing well and corner house, well conrer house is the corner house hey..
blues café in boksburg(think that's the name) also a recent opening , vibrant times.........
up to us ,the public, to get out there and support the venues who in turn support the bands.....
Rabbitt - just before my time really but a ZA mega group .....
IceCreamMan
Lethe wrote
Where is this Acoustic Cafe? Sounds like I need to go there!
And in general I think that our music scene has improved. Especially the pop scene. There is some decent SA pop on the radio and There seems to be more backing from labels such as EMI. In terms of Rock or Metal, we do also have some really good bands like Hokum and Poverty Of Ideals who are quite interesting. But like Don said, it's a matter of preference.
IceCreamMan wrote
tell you what , I am excited bout the potential of ZA music...2 new venues in my area opening up (or have opened) is the acoustic café just off beyers and the old cool runnings is reopening under a new name and will feature live music...so I hope we the punters make them viable business ventures an get to see loads of live music..then also rumours is doing well and corner house, well conrer house is the corner house hey..
blues café in boksburg(think that's the name) also a recent opening , vibrant times.........
up to us ,the public, to get out there and support the venues who in turn support the bands.....
Rabbitt - just before my time really but a ZA mega group .....
Acoustic café
http://www.facebook.com/acousticafe?fref=ts
in randpark ridge ...
