death metal sound?

Slayer

On Saturday I just got a 2nd hand Marshall TSL100 head and 1960 angle cab (serious bargain price) and... miff!
I bought it because I thought it would be better than my JCM900 (4100) for the music I play.

So far I think my JCM900 has more kick, so, not so excited anymore.

I clearly need help here as I'm sure my settings are out (I hope).

I played through the channels without any effects and it's quite tinny.

I have boss gt100 and boss metal zone pedal and i'm not sure as to use the loops or direct into the input.

Suggestions???

Malkav

I'd begin it by saying ditch the metal zone, rather get a tube screamer or some other kind of boost with a strong mid focus, also those amps need to cook, so maybe look into an attenuator so you can push it harder at lower volumes to get more saturation, then get yourself a decent EQ - The GT should suffice if you're willing to fiddle, also plug the GT in via the FX loop and never ever ever use the amp sims on it. consider a noise gate too, as I don't believe those marshalls are the quietest amps. For what it's worth I don't often hear great things about the TSL though when it comes to heavier tones - The JCM900 should be "better" in that respect, but neither of them are really "Death metal" amps...

LooneyAtTheGate

I find Metal Zones sound terrible with Marshalls for some reason, so yes Tubescreamer is great. In my death metal band we prefer puttting a RAT before the Marshall, just don't overdo the gain. Maybe use the GT for noise-gate, and possible compression and EQ?

Only use the GT through the effects loop, and read up on using the '4-cable method' to place your amps preamp at any point in the signal chain.

AlanRatcliffe

Spend more time with your new amp! A day isn't enough time to get to know it well enough to decide if it's better or worse. Ignore pedals completely and forget any settings you had before - spend time learning what the controls do and how the amp behaves at different settings and volumes. As I often say: forget what a new piece of gear can't do - spend your time finding out what it can.

Also experiment with the two different cabs on the two different heads. Sometimes finding the right cab for an amp can be just the ticket to tonal bliss.

flatfourfan

got to agree with Alan here.

I've sold my MT-2 pedal 4 times in the past and the last time I bought one I ran it through a G200R HIWATT halfstack and it sounded totally different than on any of the other amps. Even though I don't use it that much anymore, (metal muff rather) I still go back to it on occasion as it still serves a purpose.

What pick ups do you have?

Slayer

Thanks - as far as I know the BC Rich has 'special' BC Rich pus and the Axstar by Ibanez has 'inlhouse' pus as well.

the JCm900 was bought in '92. I had no idea what I was buying - all I knew is that I had a 'Marshall Half Stack'.

The TSL100 + cab I got this weekend for 6k. Now you see I could not let it go.

Will try the 4 wire method. Will look it up on the net.

Thanks

Mixerboy

Julian Emdon (LooneyAtTheGate) wrote: I find Metal Zones sound terrible with Marshalls for some reason

They sound terrible full stop.

flatfourfan

I've found that the MT-2 likes hi gain pups. my warlock is running a single SD Invader and it sounds like it would kill all.....

sooooomeaty and loads of bottom grunt.

Malkav

I think the MT-2 is very picky about what it does and doesn't get along with, on the whole I think Marshall's don't really vibe with it, but Mesas do seem to (oversized cab maybe?) but also it's the kind of pedal that people can overkill, and it's got enough gain on tap to overkill very easily.

Provided you're sparing with the gain, the EQ section on it can be quite cool.

flatfourfan

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
Provided you're sparing with the gain, the EQ section on it can be quite cool.

amen......my MT-2's gain is never more than 1/2.

exsanguinator

theres nothing wrong with a jcm 900 and matching cab whatsoever...its a staple diet of metal really..
The TSL is a more bright sounding amp,or more bright and trebley so to speak,so you need to dial down on the dials a bit,
Death metal tones wont be achieved with those amps distortion alone,but then again.. what death metal tone are you looking for?
In front ,personally,i'd only use a Tech 21 GT2 pedal(a must for live work)
It would be hard to get a copy of the Abyss studio sounds you hear on the Nuclear Blast records anyways,believe me.Thats studio buff..
Bedroom use?depends on how loud you want to play and its unhealthy for you ears moving all that sound all the time...
thats when you should plug your gt100 mono out into the return of the amp head,bypassing the front dials, except master volume, using the GT100 as the preamp..
The distortion presets are no good with a quad,try to a/b the sound you want thru headphones on the GT and adjust accordingly on the amp..
A tubescreamer is only good to add sparkle/treble to the amps overdrive...good for rock...not death metal..rather just use the gt100
so in summerising...if you cant get a decent sound with that top gear you have,then its faulty..
or swop one amp for a Kemper unit....
or try ROCK music instead..LOL
No..really ,you must be doing something wrong mate...even with a cheap chinese 6 string knock off plugged in,you should be getting a good passable sound..

Slayer

I'm trying for a Carcass / Cannibal Corpse type effect.

Have not yet tried the effect pedals as yet - only played trough the amp directly (TSL100).

Sending my JCM 900 to JP this weekend for EL34's and biasing upgrades. Hope it's worth it.

Problem is that I can only jam with the amps on weekends (too loud) so I'm limited to the time I can experiment. But as you say if I can't get the sound I'm looking for then throw it all away, and thats why I,m looking for advice.

Possibly will look at new pus EMG 81/85.

As usual, it's the typical user error syndrome - need some "padded space" to really crank it up.

Oh - as for the rock, I'd rather play a violin!

Slayer

flatfourfan - I think you have given me the a damn good idea with the pus!

Cheers!

exsanguinator

over the years I had the opportunity to set up and sit in on quite a few auditions...
One half stack(settings unchanged)...
One guitar...
same song...
ten different players...

I think the tone was the same for 1 or 2 guys..the rest it sounded like ... different amp,different genre.... on a different day in a different country..LOL
Its all in the technique,style,etc etc...

I suggest get rid of the TSL and the GT100 and get a Kemper...then... if it still isnt working..retry rock..or a violin...LOL..
Nah..just try the Kemper..
heres some info I just googled..theres heaps of info,quite popular bands..LOL

... here is a little bit of an interview with the guys from Carcass that should give some good insight into how they get that tone.

GW: A great many death metal bands, including Obituary, tune their guitars down to D [D, G, C, F, A, D, low to high]. In fact, some, like Carcass, even go lower. Is detuning essential to play this style of music?
Mike Hickey: Carcass tunes down to B. By that I mean we take a normally tuned guitar and then drop each string down two-and-a-half steps, so they go: B, E, A, D, F#, B, low to high. To counteract the string slackness created by this tuning, we use pretty heavy gauges--.012 to .056, I can't remember the ones in the middle, but the G string's a plain .022. B isn't the most practical tuning in the world, but it's probably the heaviest, and we're stuck with it whether we like it or not!
Steer: It's like playing something that's almost halfway between a guitar and bass, actually. We've tuned this low ever since the band started, because it's so crushing--there's nothing else quite like it. Having said that, it has a lot of shortcomings in terms of tone because it's a very unrealistic tuning; we've really had to struggle to make it work. Since we've been doing it so long we can just about pull it off, but to be brutally honest, I think D, or, at a push C# [C#, F#, B, E, G#, C#, low to high], are the best tunings.

GW: What gear and settings do you guys use to get your tone?
Steer: Just for simplicity, I only use one amp live--a Peavy 5150 with a Marshall Guv'nor pedal in front of it to beef up the overdrive just that little bit extra. In the studio, though, it's a different matter; I use several different amps--a selection of Marshalls and the 5150.
Hickey: One of the amps Bill used on Heartwork was a Marshall 30th Anniversary head that's really fierce, and he also used a tiny Marshall stack on pretty much every track to add some extra high end.
[Note: Mike didn't join Carcass until after the Heartwork album was recorded.]
Steer: Yeah, if I remember correctly, almost all of the guitar tracks were done with at least two amps going at once--one of them being a large amp, like the Anniversary [on channel two], a Marshall SL-X 100 watt or the 5150, and then also more often than not, my 10-watt [Marshall] Valvestate micro-stack for extra texture.
Unlike a lot of other bands who do the kind of stuff that we do, we tend to use a lot of mids. I don't think some people realize how important middle is to a guitar sound.
Hickey: Absolutely, mids are essential in a solo--without 'em your tone is real thin. My current backline setup is a Marshall SL-X 100-watt head and a Peavey 5150. I suck the mids out of the Marshall but not out the Peavey. I started the Heartwork world tour using a Guv'nor pedal too, but I just got tired of stage divers stepping on my ****!

flatfourfan

My advice, look at changing those pups first, them BC rich design and the ESP design and the SD design are not the real thing, they are budget pick ups.

Also don't write off passives, Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Bare Knuckles are all way better pups that EMG actives IMHO.

Reinecke

Agreed, I think getting a huge tone out of a Seymour JB is a lot easier than getting it out of an active EMG! But non stock pick ups are an essential start to good tone.
But then again, you do find Gems, I bought an Ibanez AXE42 a good couple of years back, they have the Ibanez AXE pickups in there, and those pick ups just killed everything else I could get my hands on.

flatfourfan

Reinecke wrote: Agreed, I think getting a huge tone out of a Seymour JB is a lot easier than getting it out of an active EMG! But non stock pick ups are an essential start to good tone.
But then again, you do find jems, I bought an Ibanez AXE42 a good couple of years back, they have the Ibanez AXE pickups in there, and those pick ups just killed everything else I could get my hands on.

gotta agree with the gem comment. I have a set of house brand ESP design pick ups in my LTD KH and they do sure sound sweet.

Slayer

Hey flatfourfan what pus would you suggest? Any input would be welcomed.
Don't mind spending +- 1k or so, as long as its the right one.

Want to use it on my Warlock - also detuned.

LooneyAtTheGate

There's something deliciously evil about the Seymour Duncan Invader, really nice for that old death metal sound, or even modern (think Nile).
Also the Duncan Distortion, which has a bit more clarity yet still very brutal.

flatfourfan

Slayer wrote: Hey flatfourfan what pus would you suggest? Any input would be welcomed.
Don't mind spending +- 1k or so, as long as its the right one.

Want to use it on my Warlock - also detuned.

SD Invader.

I have one in my explorer and it's amazing, I shopped around and got one from music mate for a little over R900.