Confessions of a Humbucker junkie...

Sneaky-Pete

I started hotrodding guitars a few years back because I wanted MORE....
more power, more sustain , more attitude, more grunt...

I was tired of the single coil sound, so I started on the dark and
dangerous path to Humbucker Hell...!!

At first, it went well....5.5K buckers from older Ibanez....
then on to 7.5K...8.5K...10K.....I was out of control...

Soon I was importing 12K humbuckers and fitting them into my
ever-increasing rack of mule guitars ( 10 at last counting...)

But the sounds weren't getting better...they were getting worse...

What had been a fairly musical and pleasant sounding guitar had
become a raging, uncouth,angry buzzsaw.

The only way you could make it worse would be to use a razorblade as a pick..!

My conclusion...unless you play Metal(Death/Speed/Thrash/Murder)...
stay below 8.5K...aand learn to love it...you get all your musicality back...and your tone...

For me. the optimum would be a Gibson Pearly Gates at 8.5K...

PS: If you've ever played an Epi SG and thought it lacked Tone, it's because the bridge
pickup is usually a 700T which is 13.9K..!!!

Pick up a used HB in the 6K to 8K range and your SG will become the guitar you thought it would be...

Just saying....

AlanRatcliffe

Yup. High output pickups were made to make amps distort - specifically those amps that were designed not to distort in the first place. Winding a pickup for power is a trade-off - you gain output, but narrow the frequency response. Fortunately, these days the amps are made to distort, so you can use more vintage powered pickups and let the amp do all the heavy lifting.

warrenpridgeon

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Yup. High output pickups were made to make amps distort - specifically those amps that were designed not to distort in the first place. Winding a pickup for power is a trade-off - you gain output, but narrow the frequency response. Fortunately, these days the amps are made to distort, so you can use more vintage powered pickups and let the amp do all the heavy lifting.

I *think* this might be what I was getting at with my posts when I said that the guitar I am loaning seems to have greater definition than my Epi LP with EMGS in...

Malkav

warrenpridgeon wrote: I *think* this might be what I was getting at with my posts when I said that the guitar I am loaning seems to have greater definition than my Epi LP with EMGS in...

Unless the pickups are EMG-HZs, which as far as I'm concerned aren't really EMGs, then this wouldn't be the case as with active pickups they use incredibly weak magnets to capture the purest signal possible and then a clean preamp ups their level which is why they're so quiet, because of this they actually have a wider frequency band than passive pickups. Less dynamics though cause the preamp compresses the signal quite a bit, this is why I don't like them personally.

AlanRatcliffe

Chad Adam Browne wrote: this wouldn't be the case as with active pickups they use incredibly weak magnets to capture the purest signal possible and then a clean preamp ups their level which is why they're so quiet, because of this they actually have a wider frequency band than passive pickups. Less dynamics though cause the preamp compresses the signal quite a bit

Nail on the head. The compression thing is why a lot of guys like the 18V mod as it increases the headroom.

refuogee

Ok so would a high output pickup be good to use with say a plexi being as it has to be overdriven? Or do you think the same would apply?

StefStoep

Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.

Reinhard

StefStoep wrote: Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.

If I am not mistaken, those are ceramic pickups. Good for high gain applications, but if you want a warm smooth overdrive you want something in the 7-8.5k range. The Gibson 57 classic pickups are a good option and not too pricey as far as humbuckers go. If you like the guitar, keep it, swop pickups and sell the old pups to help with the cost of the new ones.

warrenpridgeon

Reinhard wrote:
StefStoep wrote: Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.
If I am not mistaken, those are ceramic pickups. Good for high gain applications, but if you want a warm smooth overdrive you want something in the 7-8.5k range. The Gibson 57 classic pickups are a good option and not too pricey as far as humbuckers go. If you like the guitar, keep it, swop pickups and sell the old pups to help with the cost of the new ones.

Or do what I did, drop the bass, only it wasn't the bass it was the electric, forcing you into the market place again.... eish...lol

Reinhard

refuogee wrote: Ok so would a high output pickup be good to use with say a plexi being as it has to be overdriven? Or do you think the same would apply?

Well the guys from past pushed those amps with PAFs, which aren't exactly high output pickups, but sound glorious driving a tube amp.

refuogee

I am currently using my stock Tokai humbuckers (MKIIs), Alnico II if I'm not mistaken, I assume fairly low output and they sound beautiful through my plexi.. Its actually a curse having good equipment because EVERYTHING sounds good, "too much gain is baaad" - "let me crank the gain all the way just for fun, dammit that sounds wonderful" but gain is bad lemme turn it right down, "dammit that sounds like heaven also" DAMN YOU CHOICE ?

Reinhard

One thing I have seen with "cheaper" high output pups is that they often sound good with a lot of gain/drive, but they can sound a little anemic when clean or with low gain. Depends on the application, but in a dual HB guitar I want a warm neck pickup with enough clarity (think piano like cleans) to prevent muddiness and a bridge pickup bright enough to cut through the mix without being icepicky.

Reinhard

refuogee wrote: I am currently using my stock Tokai humbuckers (MKIIs), Alnico II if I'm not mistaken, I assume fairly low output and they sound beautiful through my plexi.. Its actually a curse having good equipment because EVERYTHING sounds good, "too much gain is baaad" - "let me crank the gain all the way just for fun, dammit that sounds wonderful" but gain is bad lemme turn it right down, "dammit that sounds like heaven also" DAMN YOU CHOICE ?

Why is too much gain bad ? Some songs need it 8)

P.S. I am really envious that you get to crank a plexi

Chocklit_Thunda

Ah pickups! ? my favourite topic!

StefStoep wrote: Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.

Woah! Before you spend cash on new pickups, try swapping magnets... most of the time a pickup can be tailored just by this... they're usually ceramic stock so a nice alnico 4 or unoriented 5 could be right up your alley.

As for gain, buy a pedal. High output pickups were designed to break up amps that wouldn't break up with regular pickups... nowadays you can get all the gain you want without needing more resistance than rebel forces in Africa.

Speaking of resistance, thats not the best way of measuring output... A 13K pickup is probably wound with 43awg thinner wire... it isn't hotter than a 10K pickup wound with 42awg which is thicker.

Also the more winds the tighter the treble will be... You also get more mids but Hotter pickups cause you to lose more dynamics.

refuogee

Reinhard wrote:
refuogee wrote: I am currently using my stock Tokai humbuckers (MKIIs), Alnico II if I'm not mistaken, I assume fairly low output and they sound beautiful through my plexi.. Its actually a curse having good equipment because EVERYTHING sounds good, "too much gain is baaad" - "let me crank the gain all the way just for fun, dammit that sounds wonderful" but gain is bad lemme turn it right down, "dammit that sounds like heaven also" DAMN YOU CHOICE ?
Why is too much gain bad ? Some songs need it 8)

P.S. I am really envious that you get to crank a plexi

I don't reeeeaaaally get to crank my plexi although we do jam in an industrial area so I can turn it up if need be. I have two plexi's, one was a 100 watt superbass whose transformers blew (before my time) and was frankensteined into a 50 watt super lead my the amazing JP Le Roux, he put different transformers into it and it sings, with the volume at 4 its already overdriving but I do use pedals to get my desired sound..

StefStoep

Reinhard wrote:
StefStoep wrote: Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.
If I am not mistaken, those are ceramic pickups. Good for high gain applications, but if you want a warm smooth overdrive you want something in the 7-8.5k range. The Gibson 57 classic pickups are a good option and not too pricey as far as humbuckers go. If you like the guitar, keep it, swop pickups and sell the old pups to help with the cost of the new ones.

100% on the ceramics. I was actually thinking exactly along the same lines. '57 Classic in the neck and a '57 Classic plus in the bridge.

But i might first try to trade/sell and even before I do that I have to finish my restore/upgrade on my Sheraton....at least I have pups for the sheraton but still need a lot of other goodies.

Reinhard

StefStoep wrote:
Reinhard wrote:
StefStoep wrote: Could this also be the problem with my LP Classic it has the 500T and the 496R pups in. I'm just not getting a tone from it that i really like. My SG has the 498T and 490R in, and it is just so much better, exactly what i expected and wanted the SG to sound like.

I'm currently thinking that i should either just let the LP go or trade it for a LP with milder pups..... Or start looking for a milder set of pups but then its another couple of $$$ to get it up to where i want it.
If I am not mistaken, those are ceramic pickups. Good for high gain applications, but if you want a warm smooth overdrive you want something in the 7-8.5k range. The Gibson 57 classic pickups are a good option and not too pricey as far as humbuckers go. If you like the guitar, keep it, swop pickups and sell the old pups to help with the cost of the new ones.
100% on the ceramics. I was actually thinking exactly along the same lines. '57 Classic in the neck and a '57 Classic plus in the bridge.

+1 I actually prefer them to burstbuckers. They don't seem quite as bright.

Hammeron

Dudes.
I've decided to swap the pups on my Cort V to Toneriders.
The custom shop have stock at a great price.
I am into the heavier side of things.
Which ones do I go for?
Generator, Rocksong or Alnico?

IceCreamMan

Hammeron wrote: Dudes.
I've decided to swap the pups on my Cort V to Toneriders.
The custom shop have stock at a great price.
I am into the heavier side of things.
Which ones do I go for?
Generator, Rocksong or Alnico?

Generator or Rocksong would be my vote.... leaning towards generator ....

RJN

Im still on the lookout for new PUPs for my SG Special. The neck pickup is too muddy. the bridge is usable , especially for Rock stuff.
But i need a usable neck pup , something usable when i feel like playing blues.