Joe Satriani sues ColdPlay for Copyright Infringement

NorioDS · 2009-01-08T21:04:23+00:00

"I did everything I could to avoid a court case with this situation. But Coldplay didn't want to talk about it. They just wanted this whole thing to go away....

Joe Satriani sues ColdPlay for Copyright Infringement

Bob-Dubery

Riaan C wrote: Update - round two has started.

Coldplay have upped the ante by dissing Satch in their court papers ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/08/coldplay-deny-satriani-plagiarism-claims

What did anybody expect? The gloves are off, it's officially nasty.

AlanRatcliffe

There's a lot at stake here - not only was Viva La Vida a No. 1 hit, it won a song of the year Grammy. I'm not sure, but losing the case might mean Coldplay will lose their Grammy and probably make sure that they are not considered for any others in future.

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: There's a lot at stake here - not only was Viva La Vida a No. 1 hit, it won a song of the year Grammy. I'm not sure, but losing the case might mean Coldplay will lose their Grammy and probably make sure that they are not considered for any others in future.

I hadn't thought of that - good point.

There are some trite defences to plagiarism charges. Most are tecnical, or factual. To say the alleged infringed work is too generic to be be worthy of protection is a bit left-field and radical, even under US TM & P law. Will be interesting to see how this one pans out. Tried to find a link to the actual papers Coldplay filed, but was unsuccessful. Would like to read it, as it would be customary to file an affidavit by the composer as supporting document.

aubs1

Wow, just when I thought this case was getting a bit boring (been going for quite a while), here we are. I also saw this and thought it may be intereresting.
I like Satriani, and I quite frankly don't like Cold-playgirists. Sorry fans. Hope they're made to pay up BIG.

leebo87

That's a great vid, that guy knows his stuff! I can't believe coldplay would intentionally steal a riff and then have the cheek to name their album after the song they used it in though....

Riaan-Combrink

Gotta love it!

Satriani may well have ripped off Cat Stevens for If I could fly!

leebo87

Hahahaha! That's brilliant! ?

Wizard

What is composing?
= 'creating' music from the 'tool-box' in our heads of our knowledge and influences

The toolbox includes:
- scales
- chords
- chord progressions (including 12 bar blues progressions used by so much modern music)
- tempo
- rhythm

The analysis shows Coldplay and Satriani (and Cat Steven) share the same chord progression

It IS (theoretically) possible that someone will actually sit down with an existing song and actively choose to plaguarise it.
"Ohhh - better change the melody line a bit more there Bob, it's still sounding a bit too much like the original"

Did Coldplay actually do this?

The real risk emerging here is that elements from these 'tool boxes' start acquiring labels of prior ownership and thus non-reusability.
"Right - Cat Stevens has used the VI / VII / III / I progression - copyright it. File it. No-one else is allowed to use it. Again. Ever. Ever ever."

Then there will be the legal battle of what represents a copyrighteable element.
Tempo? Rhythm? Melody? Scale? Chord progression? Some combination of these?

And music, being one of the few remaining forms of true art, will fall victim to theoretical, mathematical and legal analysis.

I had to listen a few times before I heard the similarity ... and yes the similarity does exist ... in the chord progression ... but not the melody.
I've played both many times to my wife who still can't hear the similarity.

In this regulated world new compositions will thus create a starvation cycle of 'stuff that you CAN'T do' ...
... rather than add to the richness of the culture of 'more stuff we CAN do'.

Dangerous.

Manfred-Klose

Wow that progression goes back a long time.

Maby cat stevens copied it from a other artist, who copied it from someone else, who copied it from beethoven or someone, just a stupid idea :-\

...kind of like "The chord progression we do not speak of".....

Is there any other songs that uses this progression? i'll go and think and see what i can find.

Bob-Dubery

Manfred Klose wrote: Wow that progression goes back a long time.

Maby cat stevens copied it from a other artist, who copied it from someone else, who copied it from beethoven or someone, just a stupid idea :-\

...kind of like "The chord progression we do not speak of".....

I think a chord sequence by itself would not be enough to constitute plagiary. Some years ago a friend of mine was managing a "punk" band (they weren't really punk, just thought they were) in Durban. He asked me to check out issues around copyrighting. I went to meet a bloke at Gallo Records and he told me that the important thing was "the bottom line" which he described as the tune that somebody would hum or whistle when trying to hum or whistle your song. Chords by themselves are not so important.

The video examples on YouTube are interesting because they show strong similarities between the melodies as well in the chord sequence and the rhythms.

aubs1

Re: Joe Satriani sues ColdPlay for Copyright Infringement
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2009, 01:26:03 am »
Reply with quoteQuote
Gotta love it!

Satriani may well have ripped off Cat Stevens for If I could fly!

All I can say is .....wow..... interesting!!! Very interesting..... let's see where this leads to...

NorioDS

Bob Dubery wrote: The video examples on YouTube are interesting because they show strong similarities between the melodies as well in the chord sequence and the rhythms.

Yep, that video aubs posted is quite revealing. If I was a judge on the case and the plaintiff showed me that and the defendant showed me the Cat Stevens videos, I'd rule in favour of the plaintiff. I probably wouldn't agree to Satch's claim for all the money made on that song but definitely some sort of royalties. After all, the melody is quite different.

Manfred-Klose

An update.

Now Cat Stevens(Yusif Islam) is angry:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/cat_stevens_accuses_coldplay_of_plagiarism.html

All seems like a wild goose chase to me.

Heath

plagiarism a game all bands can play .........

Bob-Dubery

Manfred Klose wrote: Now Cat Stevens(Yusif Islam) is angry:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/cat_stevens_accuses_coldplay_of_plagiarism.html

So who does he sue? Satch or Coldplay?

WantzChas

I heard on the radio today that Cat Stevens is now also sueing Coldplay. Damn they have it bad

inflames

Coldplay getting it from both sides ?

Poor guys

aubs1

Now Cat Stevens(Yusif Islam) is angry:

The Cat does'nt seems to be too angry, at least not from his statement on Ultimate Guitar. I think he finds the whole saga quite amusing!!! (Not refering to the pic!)
I seriously doubt that he will get too involved here, (like sueing anyone), but interesting, the Headline....... Coldplay did it.... !!!!

Dirk

I hope Joe wins this one, there is a definate simularity between the two songs.

On the other hand, if Cat Stevens wants to sue anyone, shouldn't he sue Satch for copying his song before Coldplay did? However, this just might be a publicity stunt for Cat Stevens for the release of his new album?

Bob-Dubery

bLuEs wrote: I hope Joe wins this one, there is a definate simularity between the two songs.

On the other hand, if Cat Stevens wants to sue anyone, shouldn't he sue Satch for copying his song before Coldplay did? However, this just might be a publicity stunt for Cat Stevens for the release of his new album?

He raises the ante considerably. Satch probably doesn't have the financial clout to take on Coldplay. Cat Stevens probably does.