Different types of pickups

deefstes

OK so it seems like single coils and humbuckers account for something like 99% of all guitar pickups but what are the other flavours out there. I know of P90's which, if I understand correctly, are basically excessively wound single coils. What else?

Also, I believe single coils are generally better for clean tones while humbuckers perform well when overdriven. What are the characteristics of the other types of pups? What are the characteristics and typical uses of P90's?

What are those pups that I often see on Gretsch guitars? Like this:

Are they just humbuckers that look different?

What about these?

Are they just single coils that look different?

TIA

ezietsman

You can use them all for every style, don't get fooled into thinking humbuckers are for drive and single coils are for clean and P90s for mild overdrive and Filtertrons for rockabilly etc etc. That's all rubbish (or an excuse to get another guitar if you will)

P90s are great. They have a really fat sound but they have that nice sharp attack sound that single coils has (you can hear the pick/fingers on the string clearly). They only have one disadvantage and that is the same as other single coils, they hum, depending on the orientation of your guitar and where the closest transformer (usually an amp) is. I want a LP with p90s :-'(

I'll let others tell you about Filtertrons cuz I don't know anything about them, except that they have pretty low output in general (the classic versions anyway).

Warren

ez wrote: You can use them all for every style, don't get fooled into thinking humbuckers are for drive and single coils are for clean and P90s for mild overdrive and Filtertrons for rockabilly etc etc. That's all rubbish (or an excuse to get another guitar if you will)

Agreed here: Hendrix, as one example, got plenty of filth out of his single coils (obviously Marshall amps and fuzz boxes help). Even some players like Timmons or Satriani who typically use quite a lot of gain and humbucker guitars have often favoured low-output humbuckers. On the other hand, Petrucci uses a high-output ceramic magnet in his signature "Crunch Lab" pickup. Paul Gilbert runs single coils in his Ibanez Fireman guitars. Anything goes, really, as long as you like the sound you're getting.

I really like the zingy attack of the single coils on my Strat, with or without lots of drive. But then, I also really like the more compressed sound of the high-output 'buckers in my Music Man, especially if I'm really cranking the gain. I can't really say one sounds better or more suitable than the other.

I also know nothing about Filtertrons. ?

Chocklit_Thunda

I'll let others tell you about Filtertrons cuz I don't know anything about them, except that they have pretty low output in general (the classic versions anyway).

About filtertrons they're not exactly low output... They are wound really low (about 4.5 - 5.5K for the entire humbucker) but use a double thick, double strong magnet to gain the same levels of output as a normal humbucker. They have less windings but a stronger magnet which changes the sound (as the conventional way to increase output was with more winds)
I think the dynasonic style single coils work in a similar fashion.

As for that whole "this pickup is for this and that pickup is for that" story..... Don't buy into it. Like the guy above me have said, go with what sounds good to you... If you want to play death metal using Duncan antiquities with Alnico II magnets instead of the filthbucker cat slayer 10 000 with triple thick ceramic mags, then go for it ? at the end of the day you have to try them to know what you like better.

@ez I played a cort source (335 style guitar) with P90's (and fresh strings) and was blown away! Major GAS for P90's now

ezietsman

I played a Tokai LS95S at Bothner's a year or two ago. It was magnificent. Couldn't afford it then :'-(

ZarK

Chocklit_Thunda wrote:
I'll let others tell you about Filtertrons cuz I don't know anything about them, except that they have pretty low output in general (the classic versions anyway).
About filtertrons they're not exactly low output... They are wound really low (about 4.5 - 5.5K for the entire humbucker) but use a double thick, double strong magnet to gain the same levels of output as a normal humbucker. They have less windings but a stronger magnet which changes the sound (as the conventional way to increase output was with more winds)

Strong magnets in neck positioned pups often steal a truck-load of your sustain. Be-aware...

AlanRatcliffe

On the 'Trons, ya gotta love a pickup that so defines the sound of artists as varied as Malcolm Young, Chet Atkins, Billy Duffy and Brian Setzer. I'll let them speak for themselves: http://www.guitarforum.co.za/youtube-guitar-videos/for-the-tv-jonesfiltertron-fans/

Otherwise on pickups generally, I'll resort to my usual paintbrush analogy: Humbuckers are your wide brushes that fill a lot of (sonic) space in one stroke; while single coils tend to be more focused, precise and great for adding detail. To continue the analogy, P90s are your midsized brush that can go either way, depending on how you use them. Filtertrons I suppose are like a brush with a fattish body, but tapering to a very fine point. Further divisions are all down to texture - some give you more or different texture, some flatter but bolder.

deefstes

OK, thanks so far guys. I'm saying "so far" because I'm hoping there will be more responses.

So there's been some discussion now on filtertrons but no-one has actually said "yes, those pickups on the Gretsch guitars above are called filtertrons". Am I correct in assuming that? If so, what is the difference between those on the first pic and those on the second pic?

We've talked about single coils, humbuckers, P90's and filtertrons but are there any others or does every electric guitar have a combination of those 4 types?

AlanRatcliffe

The first Gretsch pic has Filtertrons, the second D'Armand style single-coils (which have a following all of their own, but are still single-coils).

Most pickups are either humbuckers or single-coils, but there are many variations on these two themes. As to other types, there are lots - minibuckers, horseshoes, Alumitones, split singles, Jaguar, Lipsticks, Jazzmaster, Wide-Range, Firebird, Rickenbackers etc., etc., etc.. The lines are also a lot blurrier these days with noiseless "single-coils" and "rails" (which are both single-coil sized humbuckers) and P90s in both humbucker and single-coil sizes. In fact you can get just about any type of pickup in any form-factor these days, with minimal trade-off. Actives and passives are another dimension, although they do limit themselves to popular form factors.

Chocklit_Thunda

The ones in the second picture look to me like the dynasonic single coils (of which I can't tell you much...)
Yes gretsches use filtertrons or variants of filtertrons

Most of your guitars use either singles or humbuckers in the most common sense of the term with singles being strat, Tele or P90's and humbuckers being double coil, side by side pickups like you get on Gibson's.
however you also get buckers in single coil sizes, you get the Vox Coaxe pickups which have a strat sized coil sitting in a larger p90 sized coil
Something like this> [||(||)||] from side view with the || being the magnets or blades and the () being the single coil.
I think ibanez has a triple coil pickup and another bass manufacturer does too.
Some custom winders have split single pickups that look like
(ooo)(ooo) from top view. "o" being the pole pieces
where they split the single coil down the middle and wind each in opposite directions to create a humbucking single coil sized pickup

Remember humbucker is a broad term that's used to describe dual coil pickups but the coils can be implemented in many ways. Some have dummy coils, some have both coils wound around one bobbin, some are like the Coaxe, some are split singles like the one above and the p bass pickup and others are the run of the milk double coil "humbuckers" as we know them

Then lets not forget about coil tap, coil split, series/parallel, phase switching, partial coil split, the wire used, the magnets used, the bobbins used, the baseplate used, the wire tension, other construction issues, height, coil spacing, covered/uncovered, active/passive, radiused strings, direct mount, mismatched coils, scatter winding, ageing and the strength of the magnet used (to name a few factors) ?

Chabenda

Following the death of my fabulous "Quarter Pounder", I'm looking forward to hearing my new /old "Cool Rail". Quite an experience for an old fart!!

Psean

Chabenda wrote: Following the death of my fabulous "Quarter Pounder", I'm looking forward to hearing my new /old "Cool Rail". Quite an experience for an old fart!!

The quarter pounder is a pickup heard about but am still a bit confused: the SD website say's it's a high output true single-coil with "more than twice the power of a traditional single-coil. The result is a fat, punchy sound; similar to a P-90. It's clean at lower volumes and screamin' when cranked". So is this true? Those with experience - how hot are they? Are they pretty much P-90's in a standard single coil form-factor?

Thanks

Chocklit_Thunda

Quarter inch pole pieces and high output wind.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/high-output/quarter_pound_f/

Basically you're right. It gives the extra punch of a P90.
Edit: no HB's

Psean

Thanks ?
The quotes in my previous post were from that site. The website says it sounds similar to a P-90. What I'm hoping for is the opinion of someone who's played one. I'd also like to know whether it's technically a small P-90 (ito windings, output, etc.). Also, being a "hot" pickup, how dynamic and responsive to the volume pot and picking intensity are they? I know what the website says - what do those with experience say?

AlanRatcliffe

Closer to a P90 than most Strat-sized single-coils, but they are not a P90 - they are a hot Strat pickup. There is still quite a difference in character thanks to the completely different magnetic structure and coil size and shape.

The magnetic structure can be more or less duplicated in single-coil size, but the coil is by its very nature always going to be narrower and deeper than a P90.

Some pickups that get fairly close to a real P90 are the Harmonic Design Super 90, the BG pickups S90 and Vintage Vibe SP90.

Psean

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Closer to a P90 than most Strat-sized single-coils, but they are not a P90 - they are a hot Strat pickup. There is still quite a difference in character thanks to the completely different magnetic structure and coil size and shape.

The magnetic structure can be more or less duplicated in single-coil size, but the coil is by its very nature always going to be narrower and deeper than a P90.

Some pickups that get fairly close to a real P90 are the Harmonic Design Super 90, the BG pickups S90 and Vintage Vibe SP90.

Exactly the kind of info I was after. Thanks

Psean

deefstes wrote:
Also, I believe single coils are generally better for clean tones while humbuckers perform well when overdriven.

This got me thinking: how do the more common vintage type pickups, e.g., Strat style singles, P-90's and 'buckers compare in terms of output? I say vintage style as with modern pickups it seems that you can get anything in high output.

AlanRatcliffe

Psean wrote: This got me thinking: how do the more common vintage type pickups, e.g., Strat style singles, P-90's and 'buckers compare in terms of output? I say vintage style as with modern pickups it seems that you can get anything in high output.

Actual output is hard to quantify as it's difficult to measure consistently because of a lot of variable factors influence the output (how hard you play, the number of strings played at once, plectrum hardness, etc.). It doesn't help that vintage pups were all over the place from one example to the next.

However, it is easy to compare them on average and relatively, using a vintage Strat as a basis and saying it has a power of 1:
Vintage Strat: 1
Vintage P90: 1.8 - 2
Vintage PAF: 2 - 2.5
Modern med output HB: 3
Modern high output HB: 5 - 6

...All very rough numbers. YMMV.

Psean

Cool. That's helpful ? Thanks

Chocklit_Thunda

Psean wrote: Thanks ?
The quotes in my previous post were from that site. The website says it sounds similar to a P-90. What I'm hoping for is the opinion of someone who's played one. I'd also like to know whether it's technically a small P-90 (ito windings, output, etc.). Also, being a "hot" pickup, how dynamic and responsive to the volume pot and picking intensity are they? I know what the website says - what do those with experience say?

Oh sorry mate... Didn't read your post properly :/ well it's not like a small p90 because the construction is different. The singles and QP's use magnetic rods and P90's use two bar magnets on the base ? like Alan said