Jazz guitar and strings

vic

Hi guys I'm slowing wading into the world of jazz guitar...and what an uplifting experience so far....the chords....the riffs....all of which I'm still very much a novice to.
My question is directed mainly at the few forumites who do play a bit of jazz...

What are the "best" strings and -gauge to get an authentic jazz tone from. I got hold of a pre-used Epi-ES-175 (two alnico HB's) very recently...in fact it must still arrive from up north...This is currently strung with 10's (so that is obviously a no no I think). I presume one would have to go for 12's flatwounds at least hey ?
Any prefered make of strings ?

AlanRatcliffe

Yup, flatwound 12s with a wound G are the 10-gauge of the jazz world. ?

D'Addario Chromes are easiest to find, but Thomastik and Pyramid both have their advocates.

Keira-WitherKay

Hi ya vic ..... Hey nice one finding a used epi 175 ,

as for strings .... Like in rock world personal prefference comes into it a lot .....

Personally at moment i use d'addario chromes they flatwound and come in various gauges .... At the moment i string my hofner archtop with 12's but my es330 copy with same chromes but 10's
depends on what you like

for me i like the D'addario chromes on my guitars ...however they have a higher tension than say thommastics of same gauge . But any jazz player will tell you sometimes one brand of strings will work well on one guitar and the next another brand will sound better .... And also its very personal... Some like brighter strings , other strings like thomastic are too bright for the 1st week then mellow out ....

Strings i would say should be flatwound for a traditional tone however which brand depends on your guitar and never forget your style is a huge factor , just using a pick vs fingers then with fingers do you use nails or pads even your picking strength can change the tone ..... Also do you have a metal tunamatic bridge or a traditional wooden one ....

And flatwound strings are made by almost every string company , and often price is not the best indicator ....

Also remember in jazz ... Predominantly one uses a clean tone ... So use the tone knob to roll off any brightness ... And the amp makes a huge difference ...
Especially the speaker size ...

And of course the guitars pickup ... Jazz uses low output pups usually top brands use alnico 2 magnets ...

Also when you get the guitar the pup height is essential .... And changes or balances the tone dramatically

so yes not an easy answer .... And not simple ....

Feel free to mail me you have my email if you have any questions

good luck and welcome to the "wonderful world of jazz guitar"

aja

Are the flatwounds used to reduce treble as well as finger-on-string squeeks?

Because surely turning down the treble on a guitar will get you halfway there? Or are you supposed to get rid of harmonics as well?

*posted by a jazz ignoramus*

Chocklit_Thunda

I use d'addario chrome 13's! ? fat jazzy tone but makes bends basically impossible ?

@Aja the flatwounds reduce treble and virtually eliminates squeak ? flatwounds are great but sometimes the wound strings have less output than the unwound two (B and E).
they're even better with the tone rolled down and an alnico II magnet in the neck pickup

vic

Thanks Keira and Alan. I have already learnt a lot just by reading your posts.

@Aja....as one ignoramus to another...flatwounds eliminate the "twang" on the bass strings....sounding more mellow and warmer I believe.
Yip...too much treble is not what one would want for trad jazz. Another dimension of course is the "acoustic" mellow flavour added from a hollowbody or archtop.

vic

Keira WitherKay wrote: Hi ya vic ..... Hey nice one finding a used epi 175 ,

as for strings .... Like in rock world personal prefference comes into it a lot .....

Personally at moment i use d'addario chromes they flatwound and come in various gauges .... At the moment i string my hofner archtop with 12's but my es330 copy with same chromes but 10's
depends on what you like

for me i like the D'addario chromes on my guitars ...however they have a higher tension than say thommastics of same gauge . But any jazz player will tell you sometimes one brand of strings will work well on one guitar and the next another brand will sound better .... And also its very personal... Some like brighter strings , other strings like thomastic are too bright for the 1st week then mellow out ....

Strings i would say should be flatwound for a traditional tone however which brand depends on your guitar and never forget your style is a huge factor , just using a pick vs fingers then with fingers do you use nails or pads even your picking strength can change the tone ..... Also do you have a metal tunamatic bridge or a traditional wooden one ....

And flatwound strings are made by almost every string company , and often price is not the best indicator ....

Also remember in jazz ... Predominantly one uses a clean tone ... So use the tone knob to roll off any brightness ... And the amp makes a huge difference ... Especially the speaker size ...

And of course the guitars pickup ... Jazz uses low output pups usually top brands use alnico 2 magnets ...

Also when you get the guitar the pup height is essential .... And changes or balances the tone dramatically

so yes not an easy answer .... And not simple ....

Feel free to mail me you have my email if you have any questions

good luck and welcome to the "wonderful world of jazz guitar"

Thanks again Keira.
Just to mention a few things you raised above...

I am comfortable with finger picking as well and actually prefer this technique...even for some rock...
The Epi has a metal tune-o-matic bridge
I'm using, and will be using the normal channel of an AC30 (2X12) or a Fender Bandmaster (2x12)...this one has a lot of treble/bright response unfortunately...one actually has to turn the treble back to almost 0...

arjunmenon

I used to use the D'Addario chrome 11s which were great..not as dark as what the traditionalists would prefer.
I briefly used the Thomastik Swing series 10s, which were so-so...i think i didn't like them because they had more give than the 11s.

vic

Arjun Menon wrote: I used to use the D'Addario chrome 11s which were great..not as dark as what the traditionalists would prefer.
I briefly used the Thomastik Swing series 10s, which were so-so...i think i didn't like them because they had more give than the 11s.

Arjun, I was also thinking of starting with 11's flats and hear how it goes ?

Keira-WitherKay

As far as amps vic ... Avoid your vox ... And its not just me ... Most jazz players find the vox valve amps too bright and mid range focussed ... And if you going valve amp ... Fenders are prefered ....

But most sought after is .. Yes i kid you not solid state ....
I had a fab tube amp which wizard now owns but get way better jazz tone from my solid state ZT :... In fact the best jazz boutique amps ...or so they rated ... Are all solid state ... Henricksen , mambo , fender ultra light jazz head , and often bass amps are favoured for jazz guitar .....

Even the humble roland cube on clean channel has a really usable jazz tone often better than a tube amp

and if you want tube amps you need lots of clean headroom so players use 50w valve amps as even 30w will break up a bit when playing with a loud drummer .... Obviously at frontroom level most anything sounds good ...

Enjoy

btw go sign up with jazz guitar online , or also called jazzguitar.be its an international forum which is huge and only aimed at jazz guitar with members worldwide also famous amp builders and luthiers post often and answer questions directly ... The guy from heritage guitars , soloway guitars , guy from mambo amps, also the ZT amp builders.... Great advice and a very helpful forum ... When you sign up look me up ... Excellant jazz forum ...

vic

Keira WitherKay wrote: As far as amps vic ... Avoid your vox ... And its not just me ... Most jazz players find the vox valve amps too bright and mid range focussed ... And if you going valve amp ... Fenders are prefered ....

But most sought after is .. Yes i kid you not solid state ....
I had a fab tube amp which wizard now owns but get way better jazz tone from my solid state ZT :... In fact the best jazz boutique amps ...or so they rated ... Are all solid state ... Henricksen , mambo , fender ultra light jazz head , and often bass amps are favoured for jazz guitar .....

Even the humble roland cube on clean channel has a really usable jazz tone often better than a tube amp

and if you want tube amps you need lots of clean headroom so players use 50w valve amps as even 30w will break up a bit when playing with a loud drummer .... Obviously at frontroom level most anything sounds good ...

Enjoy

btw go sign up with jazz guitar online , or also called jazzguitar.be its an international forum which is huge and only aimed at jazz guitar with members worldwide also famous amp builders and luthiers post often and answer questions directly ... The guy from heritage guitars , soloway guitars , guy from mambo amps, also the ZT amp builders.... Great advice and a very helpful forum ... When you sign up look me up ... Excellant jazz forum ...

Thanks Keira ! Solid state hey ? ???

Keira-WitherKay

Yes ... Vic scary ... Very scary but solid state rules in jazz ....

Ironically i was just on the jazz forum and a post headed .. " vox for jazz" caught my eye ... I opened it thinking i was gonna read about an ac30 someone was using but it was to discuss the vox solid state range ...
?
Also seems light weight and compact are also sought after features ...

Join that jazz forum they have the answers to all jazz related questions and not just one opinion .... Well worth it its a hive of info especially when you stepping into the jazz genre

Chocklit_Thunda

Vic wrote: Thanks Keira ! Solid state hey ? ???

Don't write off the advances in solid state technologies in the last few years ?
My Ibby Mimx (when it's not acting up) can give some pretty great tones
Keira's ZT lunchbox is phenomenal
The Roland cube is superb
And even my Marshall MS2 mini amp has some serious balls ?

The best part is that the tech is only getting better ? some of the newer stuff can even emulate the warm subtle clipping of valve amps.
Great amps on either side ?

aja

How do these newer SS amps compare to the SS granddaddy, the Roland JC120, when it comes to Jazz?

domhatch

when i first started playing jazz, a whiles back now in the mesozoic, i was using an epi les paul gold top (with p90s) strung with d'addario 12-gauge chromes, clean through a marshall 50w valvestate. lovely tone (for me). don't play jazz any more, but i really should - playing, practicing, learning jazz will impact (positively) all areas of your playing - it certainly did for me.

just goes to show, there are no hard and fast rules, and you should go with which combination gives the best result for you.

of course, there are puh-lenty of folks with the experience to give you advice and places to start. (that is, if this forum serves as a microcosm of the greater guitar-playing world which, in my humble opinion, it most certainly does.) i guess what i'm saying is, pick a place to start, but be prepared to experiment. (oh dear. GAS attack...)

good luck, and have fun!
dh

Keira-WitherKay

aja wrote: How do these newer SS amps compare to the SS granddaddy, the Roland JC120, when it comes to Jazz?

they improved the much beloved jc 120 in 2 main ways .... 1. A warmer yet clean tone as a jc can sound a hint brittle and 2 . Offer a 100w amp so basically same power/volume BUT at under 10 kg ? for the mambo amps ... Expensive tho ... But at the moment one of the most in demand jazz amps and under 20 kg for other brands ...... Also the improvement in speaker effeciency and smaller cabs....

But the jc 120 is still considered amazing ..... As long as one does not need to move it in and out of gigs ... ?

vic

Thanks guys...great info here !
Will certainly look into those jazz forums as suggested.
Thanks again !

vic

Thanks Keira

Just found this :

http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_amps.html

Very interesting stuff here

Keira-WitherKay

Vic wrote:
Thanks Keira

Just found this :

http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_amps.html

Very interesting stuff here

yep thats the site ... I was talking about .. I'm a member . Join and on the forum page look for guitars amps and gizmo's and there you will have access to usefull info , and post questions there... Some very helpful and knowledgable people

vic

Keira WitherKay wrote:
Vic wrote:
Thanks Keira

Just found this :

http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_amps.html

Very interesting stuff here
yep thats the site ... I was talking about .. I'm a member . Join and on the forum page look for guitars amps and gizmo's and there you will have access to usefull info , and post questions there... Some very helpful and knowledgable people

Done !!
Thanks Keira !