Tone (again)

Nitebob

Okay so end of last year I bought a Ibanez 12 string, specs at

http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_page13.php?area_id=4&data_id=305&color=CL01&year=2013&cat_id=3&series_id=133

So I recently took off the octaves to use it as a 6-string and I love the tone I am getting from it, lovely full and rich as opposed to My Cort MR-F NS (sorry couldn't find specs ANYWHERE) with bone nut and saddle, and was set up by The Fret Shop

Question is: Why?

Is it the flamed Maple top? The shape of the body on the Ibby or what? Both have Elixir strings on (slight difference in gauges because of the 12 string pack) Usually I would just acccept it and move on but...even tough I love the tone I get from the Ibby, I hate the broad neck...it also has a slight fret buzz, so needs a set-up.

AlanRatcliffe

I say it's probably mostly the big neck.

There is also a lot of just plain luck when it comes to matching up neck, top and body thanks to the variability of wood - sometimes they just work perfectly in harmony with each other, other times they fight. Even with top quality components and manufacturing...

Nitebob

You really think the neck could be the reason for the awesome tone? ???

vic

Nitebob wrote: You really think the neck could be the reason for the awesome tone? ???

As Alan says... the neck is part and parcel of the whole resonating or vibrating structure which gives rise to what we call tone. Try the following....hit a chord and then gently press the body or headstock of the guitar against a cupboard, and notice how the sound/tone and volume changes when more wood is added to the vibrating structure.

AlanRatcliffe

Nitebob wrote: You really think the neck could be the reason for the awesome tone? ???

Well, fatter necks are stiffer and that sounds different to thinner ones. Which you prefer is actually a matter of taste. Myself, I like the faster, more immediate sound of a stiffer neck.

ZarK

Nitebob wrote: You really think the neck could be the reason for the awesome tone? ???

Hugh contributing factor imo...

chris77

Here are the specs for your Cort:

http://nuansamusik.com/p/10202/cort-mr-710-f-bk-acoustic-electric-guitars

Specifications
- CONSTRUCTION: Dovetail Neck Joint
- CUTAWAY: Typu weneckiego
- BODY: Dreadnought, Solid Sitka Spruce Top with Mahogany Back & Sides
- NECK: Mahogany
- BINDING: Ivory
- FRETBOARD: Rosewood
- SCALE: 25.3" (643mm)
- INLAY: White Dot
- TUNERS: Die cast Nickel with Black Knobs
- ROSETTE: Multiple Abalone
- BRIDGE: Rosewood
- ELECTRONICS: Fishman Presys - Sonicore pickup
- STRINGS: D'Addario USA EXP16 Light
- BRACING: Advanced Scalloped X-Bracing
- SPECIAL: Genuine Bone Nut & Saddle
- COLORS: MR710F NAT - Natural, MR710F BK - Black, MR710F NS - Natural Satin.

I would think it's more to do with the woods used for the tops (solid spruce vs maple laminate)than the neck, no?

Nitebob

chris77 wrote: Here are the specs for your Cort:

http://nuansamusik.com/p/10202/cort-mr-710-f-bk-acoustic-electric-guitars

Specifications
- CONSTRUCTION: Dovetail Neck Joint
- CUTAWAY: Typu weneckiego
- BODY: Dreadnought, Solid Sitka Spruce Top with Mahogany Back & Sides
- NECK: Mahogany
- BINDING: Ivory
- FRETBOARD: Rosewood
- SCALE: 25.3" (643mm)
- INLAY: White Dot
- TUNERS: Die cast Nickel with Black Knobs
- ROSETTE: Multiple Abalone
- BRIDGE: Rosewood
- ELECTRONICS: Fishman Presys - Sonicore pickup
- STRINGS: D'Addario USA EXP16 Light
- BRACING: Advanced Scalloped X-Bracing
- SPECIAL: Genuine Bone Nut & Saddle
- COLORS: MR710F NAT - Natural, MR710F BK - Black, MR710F NS - Natural Satin.

I would think it's more to do with the woods used for the tops (solid spruce vs maple laminate)than the neck, no?

My first thought was also the flamed maple top. But if what I hear about necks are true, I stand corrected (and astounded). But I know better than to doubt Alan. Thanx for the specs.

AlanRatcliffe

The all maple top will have an affect on the tone, as will the maple back and sides; heavier, stiffer bracing of a 12; the shallower body ...and everything else. A guitar is after all a system with all of its parts working together. But IMO, the core of the tone comes from the neck and everything else adds to and subtracts from that.

vic

Let's see what or which factors could affect tone of an acoustic guitar....

Type of wood of the top, back and sides...solid or laminates
Density of woods used
Arch top or flat top
F-holes and its size
The thickness of the woods for top, back and sides
The age of these (moisture content)
The bridge and nut
Scale length ?
The strings and gauge of these
The type of bracing and the wood/s used for this
The wood of the neck
Wood of the fingerboard
The thickness of the neck
The pick you use or maybe just fingers as the pick
The depth of the body
The players "attack" on the strings

....?

Thus sooo many variables....quite complicated hey ? ?

Nitebob

Another factor could be (and I think is in this case) that because its a 12 with octaves removed one tends to use the holes furthest from the saddle. Could be that the angle is also a factor. Me thinks from what we've mentioned that its the angle of strings between pins and saddle, the flamed maple top and the broad neck...

Thanks for the input guys.

Peace

Nitebob

Okay...I'm propably going to get some frowns for this and maybe thrown off the forum, but maybe I'll get an answer before that happens.

A friend of mine had one of these baby Corts...not a mini but had a small and shallow body. I was amazed at the sound he got, nice bright and crisp sound. This lead me to buy my first proper acoustic, a Cort. It didn't sound as crisp as his so I bought the same strings as his Cort (Dadario 10's). No surprise it still didn't sound as crisp. I commited sacrilige in putting flatground electrics on...not crisp enough. I thought maybe the previous owner had some work done on his small Cort, so I had a bone nut and saddle done and a proper set up at the fret shop. Still no closer to the tone I wanted. I fitted Elixirs which are awesome, and I kinda gave up.

Coupla months later I bought the 12 mentioned above, and it has that exact crisp tone, think the main attraction here is that the attack of bare fingers on the strings is also more pronounced. Doesn't matter what strings I out on the Ibby rings true (even though I hate the wide neck). It has a bit of a fret buzz, but I am too scared to take it in for a set up in fear of losing that tone...

So basically my question is: Is getting "that" tone a hit and miss scenario? Can it be replicated? Should I just keep looking for a guitar that has that tone?

Airguitar

It's my (40 years' worth of) experience that buying guitars is almost hit and miss almost across the board. I always advocate going to the shop and playing as many examples of the model you want and then choosing the one that you like best. I even sacrifice other options like colour, etc, as long as the guitar sounds and feels 'right' to me.
Naturally, higher end models are more consistent, but even then, because wood is organic, each guitar has its own unique personality, even within its' own model range.