Kemper Profiling Rack Released

Norman86 · 2013-01-16T23:23:53+00:00

and it should be available quite soon! http://www.skatingdog.com/?p=392 Kemper Amps/ Ruhr Area, Germany – January 17th, 2013 (ictw) – Today Kemper Amps, th...

Kemper Profiling Rack Released

Danny-B

I have been contemplating selling everything and getting this...

AlanRatcliffe

Danny B wrote: I have been contemplating selling everything and getting this...

I'm not too sure you'd also want to offload your effects. Even if you profile them, it's not quite the same, as you'd want to profile each chain at each setting you use.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Danny B wrote: I have been contemplating selling everything and getting this...
I'm not too sure you'd also want to offload your effects. Even if you profile them, it's not quite the same, as you'd want to profile each chain at each setting you use.

What's this sort of system really intended for? Being able to set up a sound, any sound, that you like without having to track down a '62 Twin Reverb with the Jerry Garcia mod (I don't know if such a thing exists, that's just my picky, hypothetical example)? Having, say, a dozen basic tones that you can quickly dial in on a recording session? Or for being able to switch amp sound every song? How many guys would want to do the latter in a live application?

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: What's this sort of system really intended for?

It's made to duplicate the sound of a system - any system, but specifically guitar amplification. It could be an amp and speaker, it could be a full effects chain including amp(s), speaker(s) mic(s) and post processing.

It is basically high resolution convolution - the same process used to copy an acoustic space in a convolution reverb or Fishman's acoustic "Imaging" - comparing the input signal to the output and calculating the difference and then applying that same difference to another signal. Regardless of marketing bumph, it does share some aspects with modelling, but where modelling tries to break down the effect that each part in a complex system has on the sound, convolution models the effect the entire system has on the sound. I like to think of it as follows: modelling is the micro/quantum approach, breaking down sound into ever smaller parts, while convolution takes the macro/chaos approach. Modelling is more flexible, while convolution/profiling is more accurate (but with limited control).

The big, game changing aspect of the Kemper is that it puts the control and creation of a modelled system into the hands of the user. You can do things like profile your studio sound for any particular guitar part (with everything that has gone into creating that sound) and duplicate it and call it up in the future (for overdubs or live playing), without having to have access to all the gear that was used to create that sound in the first place.

Must run... more later...

AlanRatcliffe

Continuing from where I left off earlier...

As I mentioned earlier, giving the profiling ability to the end user is a huge thing. It opens up for the exchange of user profiles and, more importantly, third party profiles.

Early days yet, but I see profiles as being akin to sampling technology - The quality of the profiles vary - not only does it depend on the quality of the signal chain being profiled, but it is already proving to be something that some people do better than others. Because of this, we will see the rise of another industry soon - those that are good at it and have access to the good amps and outboard gear will be able to start selling profiles of good amps, custom profiling services (of users' own amps). Companies will spring up who make and sell top quality profiles - much like we have companies like EastWest making quality samples of prized instruments.

Taking it a step further, studios will likely include profiles of the entire signal chain for each guitar sound as part of the recording service (some are already doing this). Another step takes us to the band (or the studio) creating another revenue stream by selling profiles of the actual signal chain used on a particular recording to other users. We'll probably even see some legal tussling over the rights to these profiles between bands and their record labels...

All this does not mean modelling is dead (sampling didn't kill synthesis either), each does different things. Modelling is better at creating new sounds and tweaking sounds. As the resolution and processing power increase, we will see an unprecedented level of tweakability for those that need it - engineers will probably be able to model an amp based on the value of each and every component in the circuit, which will be a boon to prototyping circuit designs fully without needing to heat up a soldering iron. Others who carefully sculpt and craft every detail of their tones will likely also be using modelling rather than profiling. And, of course we'll see hybrid approaches too - modelling systems that use profiles of amps, profiles of speakers and profiles of mics, but controlling their interaction and tweaking them with modelling.

Norman86

Danny B wrote: I have been contemplating selling everything and getting this...

im with alan... replace the amp if you like, but keep the effects imho!

Norman86

just a quick one, but im not sure the kemper can capture the effects chain?! ???
i know they include effects in the kpa and kpr though.. so im not sure whether you can profile them in?

Bob-Dubery

Joe Moore wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: What's this sort of system really intended for? Being able to set up a sound, any sound, that you like without having to track down a '62 Twin Reverb with the Jerry Garcia mod (I don't know if such a thing exists, that's just my picky, hypothetical example)? Having, say, a dozen basic tones that you can quickly dial in on a recording session? Or for being able to switch amp sound every song? How many guys would want to do the latter in a live application?
Good place to start :

http://kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php

For the sake of instant info , right now the KPA comes pre-loaded with 350 profiles and there are a further +- 2500 profiles available on the KPA Profile Exchange. Here's the list : ........ 122 pages , and counting . ?

http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/175/do/Rig_Exchange_Download.html

All of these can be further tweaked to each users liking and saved for themselves , or made available for download by any other KPA owners.

This product is just sooooooooooooooo awesome ! :'(

Yes, and thanks for all that. I'm aware that this amp has lots of profiles and the ability to create and store more and to recall them as needed. I'm still confused as to what type of player or situation it's aimed at. Though I suppose for a cover bands player having to cover a broad range and get within the ball park for the guitar parts on each song it comes in very handy.

Tokai-SA

X-rated Bob wrote:
Joe Moore wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: What's this sort of system really intended for? Being able to set up a sound, any sound, that you like without having to track down a '62 Twin Reverb with the Jerry Garcia mod (I don't know if such a thing exists, that's just my picky, hypothetical example)? Having, say, a dozen basic tones that you can quickly dial in on a recording session? Or for being able to switch amp sound every song? How many guys would want to do the latter in a live application?
Good place to start :

http://kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php

For the sake of instant info , right now the KPA comes pre-loaded with 350 profiles and there are a further +- 2500 profiles available on the KPA Profile Exchange. Here's the list : ........ 122 pages , and counting . ?

http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/175/do/Rig_Exchange_Download.html

All of these can be further tweaked to each users liking and saved for themselves , or made available for download by any other KPA owners.

This product is just sooooooooooooooo awesome ! :'(

Yes, and thanks for all that. I'm aware that this amp has lots of profiles and the ability to create and store more and to recall them as needed. I'm still confused as to what type of player or situation it's aimed at. Though I suppose for a cover bands player having to cover a broad range and get within the ball park for the guitar parts on each song it comes in very handy.

No, Bob. ..it has nothing to do with a broad range of tones for a cover band. ?
You're describing a modeller/multi FX digital modelling unit...been around for more than 15 years, GREAT units, but very different.

I think according to the rules I'm entitled to attempt to explain very briefly what it's all about, I don't think anyone else is qualified to provide this info...I'll provide some info and then leave the discussion.

If you've ever been into a recording studio and recorded some guitar tracks, then you'll know the process.
You might take in your personal amp, or a friends amp, or you might use one of the 10 amps provided by the studio...amps you could never possibly own.
The engineer will mic the amp and do the recording session...you'll pay and leave.
The tones you just recorded are now lost forever, by you, and by the engineer/studio.
Your album/CD is released, great recorded tones, but you can never reproduce them again, or get the exact 'album' tones when playing "live".

The Kemper can Profile those amps you used that day in the studio, or your amp, or your friends amp that you used.
The exact tones the engineer produced in the recording session could have been Profiled and saved forever.
The ability to share Profiles means that unique one of a kind amps anywhere in the world can be shared, and are being shared everyday.

That's what the Profiling process is all about...and, the Profile of the real mic'd amp is identical, almost impossible to tell which is which.
That's all the info I'll provide here, if any ones interested in additional reviews by engineer's/producers PM me and I'll provide links.

AlanRatcliffe

@ Lance - I'll let that one slide for the valuable info.

@ Bob - There is also the guy who doesn't want to take his vintage amp(s) on the road with him (or can't), but wants the exact tone (like my '63 Twin with Weber speakers - if I play a festival with backline, they'll almost always have a Twin, but never my Twin ?). They also appeal to anyone who wants a couple or three good amps available at a gig, but doesn't have the stage space/transport to make that a reality

Also anyone who want a selection of great, accurate amp sounds without the expense of owning all the amps needed to get them (particularly the small studio guys seem to be loving the Kemper for that reason).

The big studios like them for the profiling as I mentioned yesterday - and it also strikes me that they can use them to try out profiles of their own amps' relatively quickly, find the one with the character that sits in the track best and then go fetch it, mic it up and tweak things.

Something I don't know (yet) that would make a big difference live is how quickly do the profiles load? Can you have more than one profile loaded at the same time and "channel switch" with no delay? Any noticeable delay and it will automatically turn a lot of players off - particularly those on the cover circuit.

Bob-Dubery

OK, thanks for all of that. I'm just a caveman acoustic player who measures manliness by string gauge (and, you know, I've recently gone DOWN a gauge to 12s. What does that say about me?).

Preserving recorded sounds that would otherwise be lost? Maybe. You'd have to keep the axe as well and not change too much on it. Some producers and engineers, based on interviews that I've read, will further manipulate the sound that came out of the amp, so you still may not match what's on the record.

Personally I'm puzzled by the need - if there is such a need - to exactly reproduce the recorded tone, but each to his own. The bit about not taking rare vintage amps on the road I do understand, though, again, is that it THAT vital to recreate the sound exactly? That's a personal decision for each player I suppose.

Still, these are philosophical things really. There's no "right" or "wrong".

And, actually, I know it goes on. Ry Cooder loved the sound he got on John Hiatt's Bring The Family album and reportedly spent a lot of time trying to "rediscover" it and never did. David Lindley (assuming he wasn't engaging in some leg-pulling) said that amps sound best just before the power valves go, and the reason he got the famously great sound on Jackson Browne's Running on Empty was that the amp he was using was on it's last legs. So, he went on, the trick is to find an amp that's about to pack in - but you can't do that reliably. Except maybe now you can.

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: Some producers and engineers, based on interviews that I've read, will further manipulate the sound that came out of the amp, so you still may not match what's on the record.

Ah, but you could also profile the sound with those manipulations by taking a bus send from the console (including EQ and insert effects), they can also be included in the profile. ?
Anyway, most pro studios have full automation these days anyway, so when you open up a project, it includes all settings, so if you want to redo any part, the only variables are usually player, amp, mic and mic preamp - the Kemper eliminates all but the player. Porting to live applications, you don't want the buss and master effects as most of those will by needs be different.

Have you watched any of the Eagle Rock "Classic Albums" series? One thing that struck me about the recordings was how the tones were mostly there on the tape already. Just cueing up the tape and setting basic levels meant that 90% of the final sound was there already (even with the dense material like the Zappa and the Floyd). That's the mark of a good engineer - capture the right sounds the right way and the mix comes together all by itself.

Personally I'm puzzled by the need - if there is such a need - to exactly reproduce the recorded tone, but each to his own.

In studio it makes sure that overdubs done in different sessions (sometimes done months apart - possibly even in a different studio!) remain consistent (Heck, Zappa had productions whose recording spanned three decades!).

Porting to live, it places all the emphasis on the performance rather than the sound. Also, modern pop/rock audiences do expect more of a CD quality sound at the live shows. This is just the latest step to get us closer to that (sampling and drum triggering have had probably the biggest impact on live sound quality and this adds to that).

Rescator

what is most fascinating about Kemper is enjoying tons of boutique or rare amps I've never heard off

there is that feeling under fingers and "VIBE" which cannot be explained

one need to play Kemper to see my point

after 16 years of famous Virus Synthesizer , Christopher Kemper nailed it again, this time for us, guitarists .... 8)

rossgun

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Interesting - a big step closer to ideal and it's going to make it a lot more attractive for the touring and studio pro alike.

Still, quite a different approach to the Axe-FX. I still think they will appeal to different kinds of players. The ideal unit (for me) is probably somewhere between the two.

600W Seems to be a touch on the overkill side tho... ?

"Available some time after NAMM" is vague - it can take a year to get from working prototype to production. Fortunately Kemper seem to have a good rep in that regard.

The ONLY way to get rid of AMPGAS!

Muhammad

The Kemper toaster version is an amazing piece of gear.
I've not looked back since getting one.

It's kind of ironic - this thing can emulate any amp that gets profiled - and there are hundreds for free to Kemper users - but since getting it I vary between a JCM800, a Plexi, an AC30 and more recently a beautifully profiled 1978 Dumble ODS

That's it! I don't even want to go looking for more stuff or chase for better.

Thing is though - Like everyone else I was skeptical about how good it could be - I had an Axe Standard and it was definitely a step up from the boss and line6 stuff but as your hearing gets more critical and if your like me you try to emulate certain well-known sounds, I found the Axe was missing something.
I'm gonna try to not be a snob and say it was the highs or the lows or whatever because I honestly don't know what it was but it just didn't sound right.
The same can be said for the GT-10 I had previously.

I tried the Kemper and it just felt right. Like really good to my ears and responsive to my hands.

If I hadn't tried it I wouldn't have discovered that - youtube can only give you so much information.

So I guess if your like me and want a variety of sounds to mess around with (ie. one amp won't do it for you), and you have a volume issue at home regarding practicing etc, then I think you owe it to yourself to check the Kemper out.

Lol, this sound's like an advertorial- not my intention - just weighing in with my thoughts..