Car Sound Systems Advice

epictring · 2013-01-14T21:12:44+00:00

My dad gave me his old Toyota Corolla and I want to replace the crappy stock sound. I went to the local car audio shop today and the guy was trying to sell me an "entry level" system for R4200 installed I remember some of the specs right now (I'll update tomorrow) XTC Amplifier JVC Head Unit Can't remember speakers I know almost nothing about the different price ranges and systems so I was wondering if anyone here knows something. I don't need intense sub woofer bass, I listen to mostly folk, rock, little metal, blues etc. kind of music and no rave/dubstep. So I'm looking at something to give me good sound quality with basic volume levels, doesn't have to be insanely loud. Everybody says an amp is compulsory for good sound quality and getting the best out of speakers, not sure of that either. I'm looking for something a little cheaper than 4000, any advice? Or is a 4000 system really what I need?

flatfourfan

Norman86 wrote co-ax's and 6x9's arent going to give good quality sound.
and why should he spend money on more speakers, when one set of quality speakers will sound better anyway?
For R4k, he can get a decent head unit with usb, aux and cd capability, a decent 2 channel amp, plus decent splits, and have it installed.

he can get Hertz ESK 165 splits for R1370 at acoustic audio. thats a seriously good price for speakers that will outshine co-ax's and 6x9's played off a head unit.
more speakers does not equal better sound.

IMHO, 6 x 9's are garbage, but tastes and requirements are different for each person. I used to demo stuff to clients and let them decide.

It sounded to me as if he didn't really want to spend R4000 for a system and asked if this is the only route.

Hertz is good decent stuff, I dont' fault it for the money, but with a mounting depth of about 70oddmm and a size of 160ishcm, you're looking at chopping a door to get them to fit. Plus if you're juicing up the power on the doors with an amp, you're going to be looking at deadening them as they're going to rattle like nuts.

The question is how far does the guy want to go?

epictring

Thanks a lot for the advice, it really is priceless.

flatfourfan wrote
Norman86 wrote co-ax's and 6x9's arent going to give good quality sound.
and why should he spend money on more speakers, when one set of quality speakers will sound better anyway?
For R4k, he can get a decent head unit with usb, aux and cd capability, a decent 2 channel amp, plus decent splits, and have it installed.

he can get Hertz ESK 165 splits for R1370 at acoustic audio. thats a seriously good price for speakers that will outshine co-ax's and 6x9's played off a head unit.
more speakers does not equal better sound.
IMHO, 6 x 9's are garbage, but tastes and requirements are different for each person. I used to demo stuff to clients and let them decide.

It sounded to me as if he didn't really want to spend R4000 for a system and asked if this is the only route.

Hertz is good decent stuff, I dont' fault it for the money, but with a mounting depth of about 70oddmm and a size of 160ishcm, you're looking at chopping a door to get them to fit. Plus if you're juicing up the power on the doors with an amp, you're going to be looking at deadening them as they're going to rattle like nuts.

The question is how far does the guy want to go?

Yes, I don't want to spend 4k on a system, preferably as little as possible - I'm a student ?

I don't want something insane, I just want to listen to my music on the road. Don't need it earbleedingly loud, just a clear sound. The problem is mainly its quite an old car, and the stock speakers are rubbish.

Looks like this one:

From the info I've gathered so far:

I'm thinking of a head unit with AUX (for my phone/mp3 player) - maybe with USB as well (but I don't think I'll use it to be worth the extra few 100 bucks). And with the ability to play mp3s on CD.

Then either 2 or 4 speakers, the car currently has 2 speakers in front, nothing in the back. Preferably I don't want to cut right and left in the car, minimum modifications. What size speakers should I be looking at with minimum mods?

And will 2 speakers (say.. Pioneers) do?

When you start adding amplifiers it gets a little pricey for me.

I went to Game today and they had Pioneer 400W speakers for around R400 for a pair of 2 (which is scary cheap), they also had pioneer and alphine brand head units for just under 1k. Which brand?

DonovanB

I say go for 4 speakers. 2 will always leave you wanting more.

I have the standard 6 speaker setup in my Fiat but have added a Kenwood 12" in the boot. There's less space, but I found once I've taken the lower frequency strain off the other speakers I get a much clearer sound. It can rattle the mirror but I don't do that. Nobody wants to hear ~~Danny K~~, erm, ~~Patricia Lewis~~, Switchfoot at those volumes anyway...

Norman86

Donovan Banks wrote I say go for 4 speakers. 2 will always leave you wanting more.

Sorry, but thats just bad advice. If its quality, it wont leave you wanting more.

epictring wrote Thanks a lot for the advice, it really is priceless.

From the info I've gathered so far:

I'm thinking of a head unit with AUX (for my phone/mp3 player) - maybe with USB as well (but I don't think I'll use it to be worth the extra few 100 bucks). And with the ability to play mp3s on CD.

Then either 2 or 4 speakers, the car currently has 2 speakers in front, nothing in the back. Preferably I don't want to cut right and left in the car, minimum modifications. What size speakers should I be looking at with minimum mods?

And will 2 speakers (say.. Pioneers) do?

When you start adding amplifiers it gets a little pricey for me.

I went to Game today and they had Pioneer 400W speakers for around R400 for a pair of 2 (which is scary cheap), they also had pioneer and alphine brand head units for just under 1k. Which brand?

I have to ask, what is your budget then, and what DO you want to spend?

also: Head unit.. seriously, get one that features CD, Aux and USB. Murphys law, after you have bought a HU with only CD and AUX, is that you end up needing one with USB.
Also, what i have found with AUX in's are that they really arent that clean.

Speakers:
Do only the front doors have speaker cutouts? Then only worry about them.
it will probably be 13cm (5 1/4") cutouts, but could well be 16cm (6").
from there, you can see what size speakers to get.

Keep in mind, if you want speakers in the rear doors / parcel shelf, thats extra wiring, and extra strain on the head unit.
Head units produce okay power, around 15w RMS. which is far from the 45x4 or 50x4 they advertise. again, thats PMPO or ILS figures.

Now, get the best speakers you can in your budget. if you can afford speakers of R1k, get a set for the front that cost R1k.
forget about worrying about rear speakers. your passengers, if ever, dont have to worry about YOUR sound. and again, do you rather want great sound from 2 speakers, or average from 4?

as for your last question, Pioneer head units suffer from alternator whine. this because there is some pico cap that likes to blow.
but if you can live with it, go for one as i mentioned above, its worth the R100 more.
Otherwise, go for the Alpine. oh, and kenwood make some great entry level head units too.

flatfourfan

If I'm not mistaken, the stock speakers for that model corolla are in the dash on the overhang and are 4". Unless the doors have been cut for speakers somewhere in their life.

I'm with Norman on the less is more thing, I had a golf with just a set of splits up front and a single 8" out back and there was no need for rear speakers. The HU will more than likely have USB anyway as most of the news ones do for under a grand from pioneer.

The rear deck of that car is solid steel and you'll be looking at cutting to get something in the back and make it look like it belonged there, unless it's been sut already.

Avoid speakers in the rear door unless there are in there already as toyota never had them in there..........it's a total pig to put speakers in there.

A decent set of speakers for the front will run you about R500-R750. No need to spend more if it's just running off the Head Unit.

Sorry Norm, but the alternator whine story from pioneer is rubbish, that was an issue that they suffered from in the mid 90's. Properly grounded with cabling routed correctly you won't have ANY issues with whine, if you do, then the person installing doesn't know what they are doing. Alpine and Kenwood are both good makes, but for a baseline Alpine model, you're looking at R1500-00 and it'll be very basic.

DonovanB

My experience with 2 vs 4 speakers is that before I put the sub in mine, 4 speakers filled the car better. 2 speakers just doesn't fill the space enough, especially if they are small. Also if you wind up buying 2 sets of R200 speakers it still works out cheaper than one R1000 set. No matter what setup you get, you will always be competing with traffic noise.

Norman86 wrote Sorry, but thats just bad advice. If its quality, it wont leave you wanting more.

It's not bad advice just because it differes from yours. I resent that...

Norman, Flatfourfan, I disagree with you big time. a car is not a studio. Even cheap brand stuff like Dixon works well enough for a car. Your advice is great if you want extreme clarity or competition quality in your car. but the average oke doesn't want or need it.

to go OT, nice car man. It looks very clean. Whats the mileage?

Norman86

http://www.autostyle.co.za/car-audio-1/car-mp3-wma-cd-players/alpine-cde-110ub-mp3-player-with-usb.html - R1095.00

If im not mistaken, Game are selling these too for around the same price!

Donovan, Why buy 2 R200 sets in the first place? you shouldnt be expecting anything from that!

I'll tell you what im running, and i never hear road noise:

Focal Polyglass 165VR3 3 way splits. (Yes, thats 6 speakers, all in front, if you want to be pedantic about it.)
Focal Power FP 150.2 2 Channel amp.
Alpine HU.

Norman86

Donovan, the guy said he wanted good sound quality.

Hence my original suggestion of getting splits up front.
Once you have had a split system, you will never want co-axial speakers EVER again in your life!

Not only that, R200 speakers will not give good sound quality. Especially in an old car where road noise IS a problem.
good sound quality "might" be subjective, but i can tell you that even those R200 speakers will sound and play better off of an amplifier, and not off the head unit!

flatfourfan

^^^^^

Once you've had splits, you won't want to go back to co-axes, but I think that this situation doesn't call for splits.

My JBL GTO's are running off my HU, (Pioneer Ipod unit that I got from autostyle for R1400, about 6 years ago, still works 100%)

I think that what we need to remember is that the OG poster is a student who just wants to tunes in his ride.

Norman86

budget plays a big role, and i think he needs to think about that too.
he cant expect the world from R200 speakers, but if he's happy with that and has no high expectations, only wanting to fill the void in the car, then great!

But really, if he can, he doesnt need to skimp, and even on a tight R2k budget, can get good sound that will make him smile!

epictring

flatfourfan wrote ^^^^^

Once you've had splits, you won't want to go back to co-axes, but I think that this situation doesn't call for splits.

My JBL GTO's are running off my HU, (Pioneer Ipod unit that I got from autostyle for R1400, about 6 years ago, still works 100%)

I think that what we need to remember is that the OG poster is a student who just wants to tunes in his ride.

Once you've had splits, you won't want to go back to co-axes, but I think that this situation doesn't call for splits.

Ok I'm lost, what is the difference between these two?

So what you guys are saying is buy a pioneer head unit for +-1k, then buy speakers in the R500 - 700 range? Wil the head unit be able to handle a pair of R700 speakers?

I know an amp is ideal but I don't think my budget allows for another R1k. Trying to keep it at R2000

Norman86

Co-axial speakers are "full range" speakers. they have some crappy paper tweeter thing on the cone.

Splits, or a split system, has the tweeter separate from the woofer, with a crossover that allows the woofer and the tweeter to play their own frequencies.

ezietsman

Here's my advice.

Don't waste money on cars. Ever. Especially if you're a student AND have a fetish for guitars and amps.

?

Norman86

flatfourfan

Almost Norman

Co-axels are speakers that have the midrange woofer and the tweeter on the same axis. A fullrange speaker doesn't have a seperate tweeter, they are those cheap and nasty stuff that you usually get from PnP, game etc or what come in most of the new cars out there. Even cheap co-axel speakers usually have a capacitor mounted on the chassis somewhere to filter the signal as the tweeter cannot handle certain sounds below a certain level.

Below is a basic idea of a co-axel.

Here's a fullrange speaker..............note, no seperate tweeter. This is what Norm is referring to.

A split system is a separate unit altogether........it has a passive/ active crossover network that splits the signal from full range to low/ mid and highs and then sends it to each speaker, (midrange and tweeter), this is called a 2 way split system. Many companies, Focal, DYNAUDIO run a 3 way split system.

In the case of this set of kickers, the splits (what people generally call them) can be adapted to run as a co axel if space is a pita.

DaFiz

I still don't like the idea of spending big munny on a car system coz someone will come and smash the window and spoil the fun.
I dunno the prices but a Pioneer 4channel 50W Mosfet driving two larger speakers at the rear and two smaller speakers in front is enough for me.
It has been suggested here that 6x9s are not worthwhile yet I found them to be adequate and they provide a bit of depth behind you as you drive,
while up front two 4" speakers give you some brightness in addition.
Having had car windows smashed too many times I like to cover the rear speakers with a disguise (out of sight = out of mind)
and the two front speakers are small enough to mount in the door without getting in the way.

The intention is to keep the cost down in the car and not "show off" with big sounds.

Also remember to turn the volume down when coming in to land... you don't wanna let the "smash & grab" gang know you're coming. :'(

flatfourfan

DaFiz wrote I still don't like the idea of spending big munny on a car system coz someone will come and smash the window and spoil the fun.
I dunno the prices but a Pioneer 4channel 50W Mosfet driving two larger speakers at the rear and two smaller speakers in front is enough for me.
It has been suggested here that 6x9s are not worthwhile yet I found them to be adequate and they provide a bit of depth behind you as you drive,
while up front two 4" speakers give you some brightness in addition.
Having had car windows smashed too many times I like to cover the rear speakers with a disguise (out of sight = out of mind)
and the two front speakers are small enough to mount in the door without getting in the way.

The intention is to keep the cost down in the car and not "show off" with big sounds.

Also remember to turn the volume down when coming in to land... you don't wanna let the "smash & grab" gang know you're coming. :'(

Agree..........I'm all for hiding stuff, in fact all my gear is hidden from view. But getting a set of 6 x 9's to fit in the back of that corolla will involve cutting not only steel backboard, but then also having the grills mounted on top, either that or mouting the speakers from below and then pulling out the backboard and covering it with acoustic carpet.

My speaker set up in my doors.....no tweeter in this pic.

Covers on.

Amp under the front seat.

Box behind the seat........

Everything is stealth.

PeteM

Observation... most of the advice has come from Gautengers. Great advice but you can see who spends more time in their cars and therefore needing good sound systems. The Durbs and Cape guys seem less interested in spending too much.

In Durbs, the maximum time I spend in my car getting from A to B is 30 min (peak time) and the average is more like 15 min. (4 songs?). So, for me, spending any money on a sound system is a waste. If I had it, I'd rather spend the money on a good monitoring/listening system for my computer.

@Epictring, how much time are you gonna spend in your car? I would use that as a measure on how much you should be spending.

Squonk

PeteM wrote Observation... most of the advice has come from Gautengers. Great advice but you can see who spends more time in their cars and therefore needing good sound systems. The Durbs and Cape guys seem less interested in spending too much.

In Durbs, the maximum time I spend in my car getting from A to B is 30 min (peak time) and the average is more like 15 min. (4 songs?). So, for me, spending any money on a sound system is a waste. If I had it, I'd rather spend the money on a good monitoring/listening system for my computer.

@Epictring, how much time are you gonna spend in your car? I would use that as a measure on how much you should be spending.

More traffic up here Pete. I am 14 Km's away from the office and it's usually a 40 minute ride both ways, so that's a good 80 minutes to listen to music.
But a good question indeed, how much time do you spend in the car?

flatfourfan

Ditto to that...I'm 11km from the office and I can be in my bakkie for a good 40minutes to an hour and a 1/2 on a bad day.

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