Durban Differences

Squonk

Norman86 wrote
Who says they wont?
when i can talk to the builder, to tailor the sound to what i want, i can then get the tone i want!
i dont have to go buy pedal upon pedal to try find it! that costs money which im not prepared to fork out, when i can so easily chat to the builder who can so easily just build what im looking for, saving time and money

Norm - I don't want to make this a personal thing, but are you that jacked up tonally to be able to have a builder design a pedal for you?

How many Zoom FX units have you owned? That you can state that you are a fan of Zoom?

My point is that there is a lot of peer pressure or call it GAS pressure to buy certain kit, when all you need to do is find the sound you want by trying out different combinations of guitars, amps, pedals, FX units etc etc.

The whole dimension changes if you are a professional musician playing in e.g. Killswitch Engage, then you would have to get a specific tone that would suit the band.

Just the other day I was invited to jam with a couple of guys and I felt embarrassed walking in with my cheap Peavey T-60 (US made though) and my "Pathetic" Cube Amp. Plenty of discussions on this forum about how terrible these digital amps are etc etc.

I was surprised that my tone was quite reasonable, It was also the first time I had played my amp that loud. There was some serious amps and FX that day as well, Tube amps, boutique pedals etc, The Peavey - Cube combo did not get relegated at all!

My point being that it's OK to punt whatever gear you like, but on the other hand don't criticize or put down other kit while doing it ?

Norman86

sorry, thats a bit insulting.
you dont need to be a good player to know what good tone is.

If i dont enjoy the tone, it doesnt matter how good the player is, im still going to think its crap.

AlanRatcliffe

Squonk wrote I felt embarrassed walking in with my cheap Peavey T-60 (US made though) and my "Pathetic" Cube Amp.

The Peavey T-60 was never a "cheap" guitar - they are inexpensive on the second hand market, yes - but that has nothing to do with the original purchase price or the real value of them. Great guitars by any standards, IMO.

Sean

bottledtone wrote 2 shops like a few kays from each other. One saying "there is just noooo market for pedals and everyone in durban wants digital built into amp, then the other says the market is HUGE and we chatted for an hour on the subject.

I don't think this is unusual. As has been mentioned, shops in the larger populated areas will be catering to different markets. Shops in smaller areas cater to a specific market, obviously whichever one is larger. In the Vaal Triangle for example, it's the entry level stuff that gets pushed because there simply is not enough guitarists buying the more expensive stuff for a shop to survive, it's simply a business strategy, it's not an indication as to where the music industry in the area is headed.

aubs1

I like Boss pedals ..... and so do a few guys (and gals) whose tone I think is cool too!!!! ?

=

...... and regarding tone? Maybe I need a few more guitars (and amps, and Boss pedals) to get that "perfect", illusive sound I've been looking for for over 30 years ... ?

bottledtone

Pedal vs pedal was never the intended discussion.
Sorry

exsanguinator

marketing takes a huge chunk out of any company,media liasion,product samples,review samples,shows and exibitions etc etc.
Boss's budget would probably be more than all our salaries combined on here..easy...LOL
My suggestion would be to actaually make a small 1x1m promotion stand with your brand banner on top etc and a few pedals on it as samples to leave at whichever store you want.
That way the retailer has more than his word on your product and if he sells enough of them maybe will keep some in stock.
I doubt any retailer would buy any off you unless hes a personal friend,so youre stuck on a consignment basis for sure.
remember that a retailer can be more interested in what profit he can get on a product than the actual price.. if its within reason of competitors products.
He may even push the "buy local" motto if he believes in the product an backup service from you.
By just walking into a store with a pedal in your pocket and fishing for business would definetly get mixed results...in any country
In saying that..Ive also no idea on what pedals you make or what formula you used to achieve a marketable sale price.
If you just bang one together and suck a figure out of your thumb from what sweat and tears you put into making one,
then that is your first mistake and obstacle and my advice would be to stay as you are,low key/personal builder and dont approach any retailers.

Sean

exsanguinator wrote By just walking into a store with a pedal in your pocket and fishing for business would definetly get mixed results...in any country

I think it's pretty clear that that was not the intention, I thought the observation in the original post was one of curiosity

exsanguinator

sorry... my response was a general comment on the process to take ...not on how he approached the store....
i wouldve done the same thing as well...probably with sea sand stuck to my feet just after hes just vacuumed the red carpet there as well...LOL

PeteM

bottledtone wrote So, I'm down PMB/Durbs side for holiday, and suddenly think since I have a certain pedal with me, I'll go and show it to some music shops. Not really marketing, but more of a ...what the hell, I have it with me so I'll show something to the shops moment.

I don't understand the motivation behind this exercise. "it's not really marketing, but I'll take it to the store anyway"... so what the hell is it then? If you wanted to do market research you needn't have taken your pedal with unless there was some sort of ulterior motive.

I would also think that business can't be doing too well in the one shop if he can spend a full hour discussing something with you knowing full well that he's not going to make a sale. The other shop might have been busy and was telling you in a reasonably polite way that he didn't have the time to discuss your pedal or the merits of other pedals.

To bring Durban into the equation is also kind of strange... you just happened to be there at the time. The different responses could have happened anywhere in the world.

Sean

I don't understand Pete. Why would it not be necessary to have a sample of the product while doing a little bit of informal market research? Why would you conclude that there HAS to be an ulterior motive? Why conclude that the one store that shows some interest in the pedal is not doing well if this particular representative of the store is engaged in a conversation for an hour over something he obviously finds interesting. I find your conclusions a bit strange. Bottledtone is in Durban and decides to chat to some folk in retail to see what they think of the product. Why the animosity?

PeteM

Sean wrote I don't understand Pete. Why would it not be necessary to have a sample of the product while doing a little bit of informal market research? Why would you conclude that there HAS to be an ulterior motive? Why conclude that the one store that shows some interest in the pedal is not doing well if this particular representative of the store is engaged in a conversation for an hour over something he obviously finds interesting. I find your conclusions a bit strange. Bottledtone is in Durban and decides to chat to some folk in retail to see what they think of the product. Why the animosity?

There's no animosity.... and sorry if that's what you read in my post. Surely market research is done with the intention of marketing a product and, in my mind, taking the product with him endorses my mention of an ulterior motive which is the marketing of the product, yet Bottledtone says it's not really a marketing exercise. I don't get it.

My mention of possible response scenarios was as intentionally vague as I perceived the initial query to be.

And Bottledtone, to answer your question directly about Durban... sorry I have no clue and maybe the retailers are not who you should be researching but rather your end consumer.

AlanRatcliffe

PeteM wrote maybe the retailers are not who you should be researching but rather your end consumer.

+1 to this. If you want to retail, you'll have to add on a hefty markup to the retail selling price for them (plus VAT for the taxman). And then you are competing with the store's own imports (where they usually make both a wholesale and a retail markup). Then suddenly you are selling in the boutique price ranges and still only making the same profit as before...

bottledtone

1:Not real marketing?....I'm on holiday, my kids were sleeping and I saw a gap.
2:The Reason I have a pedal... I'm meeting up with another builder in PMB.
3:I went to a musicshop why..... The same reason as everyone else, because it has pretty guitars I can drool over
4:Why we spoke for so long..... We both suffer the same passion.
5:Why Durban? I want alliteration in the title ?

Blessings to you all.
Its hard for me on this forum and hard to talk around what I do. It will always be in my posts because that is a big part of my life.

Chabenda

bottledtone wrote 1:Not real marketing?....I'm on holiday, my kids were sleeping and I saw a gap.
2:The Reason I have a pedal... I'm meeting up with another builder in PMB.
3:I went to a musicshop why..... The same reason as everyone else, because it has pretty guitars I can drool over
4:Why we spoke for so long..... We both suffer the same passion.
5:Why Durban? I want alliteration in the title ?

Blessings to you all.
Its hard for me on this forum and hard to talk around what I do. It will always be in my posts because that is a big part of my life.

+100. You got quite a roasting!! All the best for the future with your pedals. From the sound of it they are highly respected by a lot of guitar players. You obviously have quite a valuable skill and South Africa should be proud of you. :yup:

AlanRatcliffe

bottledtone wrote Its hard for me on this forum and hard to talk around what I do.

You are managing just fine, IMO (the only O that matters in this case) and fortunately have a number of fans willing to speak out where you can't.

Also stay tuned - I'm currently considering a few things which will allow a little bit free promotion to those local manufacturers and distributors willing to do a little bit of legwork. I'll keep you posted...

Tokai-SA

Norman86 wrote

Whats better? Boss, or boutique quality at less than boss prices??

Boss. ?

Biggest selling pedals in the world for professional gigging guitarists.
The quality of construction can't be beat.

When I got my Fulltone Fulldrive 2, I took it to Peter Hanmer's studio.
We plugged it in, he got the same tone with an Ibanez TS9, no mods.
Then I got a Fulltone OCD, same thing, took it to the studio, he plugged into an MI Audio Blues Boy, sounded as good as the OCD.
Imported a Suhr Riot pedal for Mark Beling, we played it in his studio, he preferred the old 1984 RAT I imported for him.
etc, etc, etc.

I've dealt with a bunch of top pros and watched them go through a whole lot of boutique pedals, most of them landed up settling on an MI Audio Crunch Box and MI Audio Blues Boy Pro...Dan Patlansky also uses an MI Audio Blues Boy.

Tokai-SA

bottledtone wrote Wasn't really marketing my stuff, as I build what I build and don't ever want to convince someone to use what they won't find will work for them. More of a interest why shops so close to each other would have such a difference of opinion.
My last question was wrongly placed.... Sorry, as I thought back to something else where I chatted with other muso's who spoke of jhb being the only money making area in industry. And I have picked up that natal is an area where I don't have many sales at all.

Yes it was Lee that I chatted too. And I liked what he said about wanting to know what's on the market before others come into shop and he has no clue what they are on about.

You need to build 50 pedals.
Then take 5 pedals to 10 different music stores, leave them on consignment.
A guitarist plugs into one of your pedals, he likes it, he buys it, now the music store buys one from you.

AlanRatcliffe

OK I deleted a few posts - my comment wasn't intended to inspire speculation on rule changes or discussion on the merits of the rules.

Firstly, the rules are not changing - the current system does work (mostly...) and there are many who work within the framework admirably without crossing any lines. No, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and it's better than the alternative - a free-for-all...

I'll just be adding in a way to get product news on the site, but it will be via me rather than posted directly by those with the vested interest. Kind of a "product news" section so we can all keep current on what's new locally and discuss it. I'll also be stepping up some other areas of the site in the new year, taking (and making) more time to add new original content on the articles and reviews side - not only my things published elsewhere before, but exclusive content for GFSA.

babbalute

Disappointed

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