From who do you buy

Ray · 2012-11-22T17:25:14+00:00

Just got an email from a Knife Magazine, and the thing starts with the story that if you arent buying American you arent looking after or interested in American jobs and so forth. Now there are a lot of good American knives. There are a lot of good knives from elsewhere - developing economies , if you will. But here's the thing. The non-American made knives are o so very often, so much cheaper to buy. And so often the buying experience is just so much better. This has been my experience. And I try and fit this into context of music equipment and then further into context of buying stuff made in South Africa. There are guitars made in SA. I dont know about guitar "factories" but certainly custom instruments can be purchased here. And bits can be bought here as well but they are originally sourced from somewhere over yonder. And if you scout around you can get them in yourself pretty easily and in some cases like delivered to your door. So, I dont have a hard and fast opinion on this. I just find that comms like this email I saw are trashy attempts at persuasion, sort of bordering on coercion. What do you think of this?

singemonkey

It's simply not true that Asian guitars have no resale value. It all depends on recognition. American guitars are better known so more people know what they're worth. Some Asian guitars - for example ESP or Ibanez, also have followers who know what they're worth, and they'll pay it. Unrecognised guitars from the USA will also take a hit in South Africa.

US patriotism is sincere. But I have no incentive to protect American jobs. South Africa has a very limited range of locally made gear unfortunately. Also, I'm naturally influenced by international musicians and local musicians who play the more common internationally made instruments. As a result, local guitars, no matter the quality, don't necessarily suit my needs (although I did see a reduced size... is it BrianS guitars?... that looked brilliant, and very nicely priced, if they produced a full-size version. Ironically the full-sized version, being much fancier and with a carved top etc., was not nearly as appealing).

In terms of national quality, my experiences with Japan are stand-out. That nation has a well-earned reputation for consistency of quality in production that other nations lack. I own cameras of several Japanese companies, a few guitars, and have even owned a couple of their cars (which may, however be a bit small for me) and everything feels like quality (except for mid-2000s Nikon compact cameras for some reason...). I have not had anything like that consistency from the products of other nations. Japanese companies just seem to lack those cycles where the company simply trades on its name and forgets about quality (or reduces it purposefully to cut costs) until it gets so bad something has to be done.

IceCreamMan

the reality is that american made guitars keep their resale value far better than the others...this is due to perception and not necesarily quality or "goodness" of the instrument.

I scour gumtree etc. and have seen amazing guitars from the 60's/70's on sale - ibanez etc.etc. and the guys are selling them for lil money ....even made in japan fenders dont hold value like their american coutnerparts.... this is the truth ....

"made in america" has a perception to it ,,,it add svalue , its the "home" of the modern electric guitar .... it makes it more desirable .....

akin to the harley davidson vs the japanese harley's....the japanese harley's are infintiely better, dont leak oil , have better engines , more efficient .... but the harley's hold their value way way better than the competition...we seem to add value to the MIA tag.

chris77

IceCreamMan wrote the reality is that american made guitars keep their resale value far better than the others...this is due to perception and not necesarily quality or "goodness" of the instrument.

I scour gumtree etc. and have seen amazing guitars from the 60's/70's on sale - ibanez etc.etc. and the guys are selling them for lil money ....even made in japan fenders dont hold value like their american coutnerparts.... this is the truth ....

"made in america" has a perception to it ,,,it add svalue , its the "home" of the modern electric guitar .... it makes it more desirable .....

True. Kinda. I bought a 1971 Ibanez Thinline Tele for a fraction of what the '69 Thinline Fender Teles it is based upon will go for. Great Deal for a guitar with some serious mojo.
But there's a reason for it being cheaper. The bridge is kinda wonkey and wrong. The headstock has a trussrod cover straight from the design books of House of Kitch and it's pickups aren't even tele style pups at all. Just plain old single coil sized pups - one with a chrome cover and one with tape over the coil and no cover. So it's actually a bit of a sheep in wolves clothing and it's cheaper price has as much to do with it being , uhm..., well, less good than it's US cousin than it's cousin being US. Look, I still love her, and for what I paid for her there's no complaints - but apart from her being old and having that aura of awesomess because of it, she's a bit of a dog. So I reckon a lot of those 60's and 70's guitars going for silly money on GT are as well, and that's why they are so much cheaper than US guitars. Sure there will be gems among them, but they will be in the minority by far I reckon and if you find one you won't be willing to let it go for silly money on GT in the first place.
But with modern guitars there is no doubt about it. For most folks a US guitar is perceived as better and demand a higher price tag, especially second hand. A lot of it is probably because our market is flooded with cheapish guitars of eastern origin and folks who aren't always as enlightened as the average gfsa forumnite, undeservingly bundling all eastern brands in that same group. So even if it is an unfair and uneducated perception, it is still the norm. Sad but true.
Plus, you then still get folks like me who know that there are better guitars to be had for the money, but still dream of US axes because of their heritage and my misplaced adulation of what they represent. :-[

studmissile

From who do you buy? Whoever is selling a good guitar. What's a good guitar? You'll know when you pick her up and play her!

Big-G

I like what Studmissile says above! Thats generally my thinking too!

I own one Korean (LTD EC-500) Two Jap's (the acousitcs) and a Brittish custom made bass.

All were bargains in their own right, and all are superb.... I say, if anyone wants to spend extra unneccessarry funds on buying US stuff, just because its from the US, and therefore has a 'reputation', then go for it... I on the other hand will be using the money I saved to buy other great toys, and build up my studio!

I'm not saying I'll never own US made gear, as I have done in the past, and really enjoyed it, but I will not spend silly money to get the gear! Thats where I believe Fender have lost the plot.... And to clarify, this is just my opinion..... The prices fender's fetch new and used are rediculous, especially in this country, and for the same price, or in some cases less, I can get a custom made guitar that will play far nicer, look nicer, and be exactly to my spec. As much as I enjoy the sound of a Strat or a Tele (especially the Tele), for me they are vastly overpirced. I could never justify spending that on a 'mass produced' instrument, no matter what label is on the headstock!

Again, just my opinion. If Fenders are your thing then thats cool... But I'm not buying into their brand.

Cheers!
G!

studmissile

I love Fenders, but vintage Japanese ones. I have a USA Gibson Les Paul Standard (60's neck) and several Japanese tele's and all are a absolute pleasure to play. And it not that I wouldn't buy a USA tele's but the necks just don't feel right! (for my hand's that is) so it's purely a preference. The very first thing I do with a guitar is feel the neck at the nut, if that doesn't sit right I won't even pick her up.

The USA shape's U and C are very different to Vintage Japanese shapes V and D or (354).

psyx

Big G wrote I like what Studmissile says above! Thats generally my thinking too!

I own one Korean (LTD EC-500) Two Jap's (the acousitcs) and a Brittish custom made bass.

All were bargains in their own right, and all are superb.... I say, if anyone wants to spend extra unneccessarry funds on buying US stuff, just because its from the US, and therefore has a 'reputation', then go for it... I on the other hand will be using the money I saved to buy other great toys, and build up my studio!

I'm not saying I'll never own US made gear, as I have done in the past, and really enjoyed it, but I will not spend silly money to get the gear! Thats where I believe Fender have lost the plot.... And to clarify, this is just my opinion..... The prices fender's fetch new and used are rediculous, especially in this country, and for the same price, or in some cases less, I can get a custom made guitar that will play far nicer, look nicer, and be exactly to my spec. As much as I enjoy the sound of a Strat or a Tele (especially the Tele), for me they are vastly overpirced. I could never justify spending that on a 'mass produced' instrument, no matter what label is on the headstock!

Again, just my opinion. If Fenders are your thing then thats cool... But I'm not buying into their brand.

Cheers!
G!

I believe Gibson is far more guilty of pricing their guitars higher because of the name on the headstock. The pedigree of the guitar adds a few thousand bucks to the price tag. Eastern guitars are quickly gaining reputation and pedigree themselves though.

briang-telkomsa-net

If the Germans made guitars I would by from them - In general German = quality? ?

Bob-Dubery

briang wrote If the Germans made guitars I would by from them - In general German = quality? ?

No country has a monopoly on cheapness or on quality. Topgear are always telling us how often mercs break down.

There are German guitar brands, though whether or not they're still made in Germany I don't know. Two I can think of are Hofner and Framus. They were making guitars in the 50s, but somehow it was the USA brands that ended up being the popular ones, maybe because of all the US rock artists that were seen on TV.

studmissile

I wonder if the overpriced potion on a lot of quality guitars (and guitar parts) is also attributed to the isolated small market South Africa is. I mean you can literally count on both hand the number of musical shops in South Africa. Importing looks reasonable until you calculate postage or courier costs and duties.

We caught been a rock and hard place when it come to musical instruments. God bless Lance for bringing in high-end Asian guitars to this country! Fender USA doesn't want Fender Japan coming here (which would be more moderately priced and more suited to our weak currency!).

Although though the Internet we have a greater access to different guitars, the market here remains monopolized and very controlled. There are so many high-end Japanese guitars I would love to try before you buy. Alas I remain drooling....

[deleted]

briang wrote If the Germans made guitars I would by from them - In general German = quality? ?

Some of the finest I've laid hands on

http://www.duesenberg.de/

vic

briang wrote If the Germans made guitars I would by from them - In general German = quality? ?

Hofner and Framus...as Bob said.

Some of these models were OK....but overall, the pups, the playability,and in particular the action and intonation, left much to be desired.

Regarding the MIA vs MI the East debate....don't think the respective "quality and value for money" is the issue....some buyers just prefer NOT to buy a knock-off, or copy,or a lookalike. It's personal preference IMHO.

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