MultiFX - Hints, Tips, Links and Suggestions?

racman

I am attempting a third "bite" at multifx for the convenience factor, after stumbling across a used HD500 at a ridiculously low price at a local music store. I don't envisage getting rid of a pedal board until I am really satisfied that it has been made redundant. For now I am taking it slowly and methodically working through all info available including various forums etc. I am hoping to use this as a Direct to PA setup.

I was considering a TC G-System but realised that, for me, it would defeat the object of my intentions for convenience and portability as it would result in a bigger pedal board situation - Amp Sim and Drives needed. Of course the price factor is a large consideration as well.

One of the aspects that still surprises and disappoints me is the small amount of actual useable factory presets on the MultiFX units I have tried (HD500, GT-10, GP100 but I guess the intention is to show off all the weird and wonderful capabilities.

I guess I have always been disappointed with the tone and usability of the units I have tried (never tried 11r, Axe FX, or G-System) and probably had unreasonable expectations of some sort of plug and play presets etc. I now realise that it requires quite a bit of tweaking to get a useable sound. Another aspect I am embarrassed to confess to is that I have also realised that it is essential to tweak and setup the unit using the same system that one will use live. Tweaking with Headphones or amp is no use if one is using a system with direct to PA and monitors. So I am going through a process of learning and setup at the venue that I play at using the system and monitors etc. (I see quite a few Saturday afternoons being used for this)

I thought I would share this link to information that I have and am finding quite enlightening and useful with good results:

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

While the link is primarily aimed at high gain tones, there is much usefull info that is applicable.

I don't know if I will ever really experience the digital Multi FX route as a great solution rather than merely a good or adequate one though. Maybe this is the realm of the big bucks Axe FX11 and its competitors. For me though, I am still battling to get a clean tone that comes close to my simple analogue Custom Tones Ethos pedal for direct use but I who knows…

I thought I would start this thread and encourage others to give their views, hints, tips and suggestions as well if interested. I certainly need all the help I can get.

Tokai-SA

Hi Roy

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for, or what your goal is.

Are you looking for a modeller to use for gigging?
What kind of music will you be playing?
How many FX do you need?
How many amp models/sims will you need?
How are you monitoring yourself on stage?

Don't expect usable factory presets on any modeller.
Everyone uses different guitars/pickups, no 'preset' can accommodate all the variations created by different pickups/guitars.

If the GT100 and HD500 are not doing it for you, have you tried the TC Nova System?

arjunmenon

Great thread Roy. I used to be an avid multi-fx user.
If it's just convenience you're looking for you can't go wrong with the likes of HD500 etc.
As for getting clean sounds akin to what the Ethos does for you, i'm sure you'll be disappointed by digital gear.
The Axe-Fx you've already mentioned. The only other thing i can think of is the Kemper Profiling Amp.
The person to speak to about that would be forumite TokaiSA

Good luck with your quest!

Tokai-SA

Arjun Menon wrote
The Axe-Fx you've already mentioned. The only other thing i can think of is the Kemper Profiling Amp.

Good luck with your quest!

Thanks for the mention, Arjun, but no, the Kemper is not going to do it for Roy....it's overkill.

If the Custom Tone Ethos pedal has a DI, and Roy's happy with the clean tone it produces, then IMO there's an easy solution...a small pedalboard in front of the Ethos.
A TS9 type pedal, then an MI Audio Crunch Box, a chorus/Flanger/Phaser/Vibe, a Delay pedal, into the Ethos, direct to an FRFR monitor & PA...no tweaking needed.

DonovanB

By the looks of it, the GT100 is very different to the GT10 so don't write it off without trying it though.

The main thing about a MFXU is that you can have the best in the world, but if you don't know what sound you want out of it, or how to get it, you'll more than likely settle for the factory presets which are generally cruddy.
As an example, Steve Fataar uses a Zoom 505 to great effect ( ha, see what I did there?) He gets great tone because he knows what he wants and gets it.

Have fun shopping. ?

racman

Tokai SA wrote Hi Roy

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for, or what your goal is.

1) Are you looking for a modeller to use for gigging?
2) What kind of music will you be playing?
3) How many FX do you need?
4) How many amp models/sims will you need?
5) How are you monitoring yourself on stage?

Don't expect usable factory presets on any modeller.
Everyone uses different guitars/pickups, no 'preset' can accommodate all the variations created by different pickups/guitars.

If the GT100 and HD500 are not doing it for you, have you tried the TC Nova System?

I think the answers to your questions will answer most of the others Lance, so here goes.

1) I am looking at something (bought the HD500 as a starting point to get into it now) for gigging
2) Music I guess could be classed as anything from slow ballads to Pop and Rock type. Sometimes a little R&B and even a few Reggae type songs.

3) Now THAT's the question. I started with Ethos, Delay and OD. Then of course we started doing one or two songs that I was asked to add a rhythmic Wah effect, so I got an Auto Wah, then a tremelo. Then two weeks ago we decide we need a Phaser effect on one song ... and then I thought of trying a multi FX. I am still completing a Pedaltrain 2 board which I will use at home but I want something simple, light and convenient for gigging.
4) I only really need one Amp model (Fender Clean) but may use an additional one *Maybe Marshall Plexi type) on the MFX. But no use for more.
5) I had a thread on my on stage woes but have reached a solution and I now send a signal to the PA and have a dedicated, powered monitor direct from my board as well. I hear the rest of the band adequately from the monitors around me and the dedicated monitor for my guitar only gives me the control I need.

I looked at the Nova system and flirted with an M9 on one or two occasions but essentially I will be using the MFX as a convenient "Amp Sim and eight pedals in a box" before I progress towards setting up specific patches (or multiple patches) for specific songs. So the M9 was too restrictive for that and the M13 too bulky when one adds the Ethos etc. as well.

Hope this all makes sense.

IceCreamMan

Hi Roy

Gotta say that for simplicity's sakes that M9 u sold me is perfect. Although no amp sim i run it to any one of my amps and get all the tones i could possibly want or need . For the ease of use and simplicity the M9 is a winner all round. For live use its perfect btw .... prior to the M9 i tried a Boss GT system that came with a 80 page manual , if that aint intimidating then i dont know what is ..... the line 6 is just excellent (for what it is meant to be)

I aint helping much am i..... sorry ....but good luck ...its an eternal search

LooneyAtTheGate

Here are some factors to consider when using a multifx:

1. The more 'intimidating' the better. The more complicated it is, the better chance you have of finding your tone. After a year you won't find the unit intimidating at all, just like you don't find the operation of your car intimidating. You might even wish that it had MORE options. Keep the manual in the toilet and read it over and over.
2. The factory presets are just demos, just do away with them as they probably won't match your guitar and amp. Build your tones from scratch one effect at a time.
3. If you're using preamp simulators you HAVE to use send/return, plugging into the front means you're stacking two preamps on top of each other which is generally bad news.
4. Don't expect to get the exact same tones you get with analogue gear, you might be disappointed.
5. Have different presets for headphones, amp, and band. The great tone you get through an amp will sound terrible through headphones, and might get lost in the mix when you play with a band. Try create patches in the band room.

AlanRatcliffe

Guys, regardless of whatever else is on the market, Roy now has an HD500 and wants to try get the most out of that.

Roy, the single most useful tip I can give you for programming a multiFX/modeller is: Turn everything off. Disable every effect and write a "null patch". Save that as the default patch that you use as a starting point. Don't use a factory preset as a basis for your own patches, regardless of how good it sounds, as there is a good chance you will run into issues later, where something that has been done to make the preset sound good will cause havoc with something else you want to do.

Next, tweak your amp/speaker tones first and write a selection of "amp-only" patches - one for each amp you are likely to use. The amp sound is the basic building block for any guitar sound, so if you can't get the amp-only patches to sound good to your ear, you will never be happy with what you get out of the unit. Once you have a bank of amp-only patches as your basic patches, not only do these serve as your basic patches for just playing and jamming, but they also serve as the basis for your effects patches.

As far as monitoring goes, You can use headphones, but you must tweak your sounds on the system you will be using live - don't worry about FOH - tweak for your monitor and let the soundman do his thing for the mains. I like using headphones for my basic patch writing (accuracy and detail), I tweak with my studio monitors (which are, after all, designed to let you hear and mix a sound that ports well to other speakers) and do final tweaks on the actual system I am going to use.

For live sounds, keep it simple, keep it mono (or at least make sure the sound works in mono). Program all your patches at half to 3/4 on the master so you have some headroom to play with when the band gets carried away.

I'm sure I'll think of more, but them's the basics..

Jayhell

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but if it is a case of a simple pedal with a lot of on the fly tweaking I'd say look at the BOSS ME-70. I love mine and have never even used it in pre-set mode. In manual mode all the switches operate as individual pedals. Also when I use an amp I turn of the amp Sims and when I record or go straight into a PA I simply turn on my favourite amp sim. I'm not too fond of the overdrives and distortions on this unit so it might help to add your favourite stomp box to your setup.

racman

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Guys, regardless of whatever else is on the market, Roy now has an HD500 and wants to try get the most out of that.

What he said.... ? ? ?

Thanks for some great tips here guys.

Alan, some great advice that I will setting up tonight using headphones and then tweak fro my dedicated monitor on Saturday. I guess If I don't like the amp sims then I could run the Ethos using teh EFX loop but that would be defeating the object somewhat. At the moment, I plan to persevere for a while and see if I can get great tone for me. I know of many famous guitarists that get great tpne from MFX for their tastes so it should be achievable.

arjunmenon

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Roy, the single most useful tip I can give you for programming a multiFX/modeller is: Turn everything off. Disable every effect and write a "null patch". Save that as the default patch that you use as a starting point. Don't use a factory preset as a basis for your own patches, regardless of how good it sounds, as there is a good chance you will run into issues later, where something that has been done to make the preset sound good will cause havoc with something else you want to do.

By the far the best bit of advice. It's a tedious process, but worth it.
I did pretty much the same thing, but with a GT10 some of the effects react differently based on either line out or amp out.
Plus i was running a 4 cable method, so i had to sort out patches for DI and amp use.

Roy, for your application, do you have in-ear monitors or the regular door stopper kind?
I'm not sure how it would affect you, but in my case it changed my perception of the sound depending on who was manning FOH.

racman

I use a dedicated powered monitor that runs direct from the DI "Link" output so essentially direct from the Board or MFX unit. This way the house mix has no effect. They normally run whatever I give them on flat EQ most of the time as well.

Tokai-SA

The HD500 comes with a preset of each amp sim, with no FX, just the raw amp sim...so it's extremely easy to start from scratch and build a patch.

No doubt about whether you can get great tones, just listen to Lincoln Brewster and the tones he gets using his Pod XT Live or Pod X3.

If all else fails, a Marshall TSL clean channel with a few pedals will cover every tone a guitarist could ever need for any gig. ?

[deleted]

Tokai SA wrote Lincoln Brewster and the tones he gets using his Pod XT Live or Pod X3.

+100

ActionArnie

AFAIK Lincoln Brewster's patches for the X3 were available for download somewhere. Not sure if he ever did the same with an HD500 or if the X3 patches are of any use on an HD500.

racman

I noted his patches for X3 and I know someone who can get those he uses now for the HD500 (he uses Axe FXII in studio and HD500 for live now).

However, I like Alan's and Tokai SA's suggestion as it will also force me to learn about the unit as I go along as well as get a tone that appeals to me. I enjoy seeing how others set up their patches for ideas but I ultimately want to setup the patch myself, even if it is a copy. Hope that makes sense...

racman

Spent a few hours this morning just experimenting and tweaking the Blackface and "Lux" amp tones. Interesting how the "Sag" and Bias etc effects the different Amp Sim models.

It sounds rather lame that a few hours was spent on just two Amp Sims, Cabs, mic placings etcand a 63 Spring Reverb settings thoiugh! ☹

AlanRatcliffe

RoyC wrote Interesting how the "Sag" and Bias etc effects the different Amp Sim models.

Yeah, and stock settings on the HDs are rarely what you want though

It sounds rather lame that a few hours was spent on just two Amp Sims, Cabs, mic placings etcand a 63 Spring Reverb settings thoiugh! ☹

Unfortunately that's the tradeoff for the flexibility. How are you finding the tones though.

racman

I am finding the tones OK so far Alan. If that sounds less than enthusiastic then it probably is as a result that I really don't know yet as I am setting up with headphones and then hope to get to the venue and tweak with the actual monitor I use. (I was going to do this yesterday but had a little matter of collecting a few awesome pedals from a fellow GFSA'er who has migrated to a G-system). I think it sounds promising so far but I have no idea until I hear it without monitors. One thing I can already see is that the Drives are going to take a fair amount of tweaking to get what I like though.

I tend to favour more simple pedals as far as controls go. I prefer to select the sound or tone that I want and then look for a simple setup. The perfect example of this is my recently acquired MojoHand Sugar Baby Tremelo - great sound and only two controls. I find most of the effects in the HD500 have just far too many parameters or controls to fiddle with in my opinion. Great for perpetual tweakers but a real pain for me.