Dream guitar or gimmic?

DonRoos

I am considering a Les Paul style guitar to round out my megre collection so was on the Gibson web site last night. My eye was caught by their latest guitar, the Firebird X Limited Edition. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Firebird/Gibson-USA/Firebird-X.aspx

This guitar has it all! Built in robo-tuner with 11 on-board tunings to choose from. Flick a switch, choose a tuning, strum once and hey presto, guitar in tune!

Then it has 3 H pickups AND Piezo under bridge so this guitar can be made to sound like anything from an accoustic or 12 string to single or humbuckers.

Then it has a built in effects processor with 55 pre-sets selected by a rotary switch that lights up like a Christmas tree and a 5-way throw. The effects are controlled by two 3-way toggles with rotary. The tone pot has 8 different settings and pressing it twice puts the guitar into edit mode and then 6 sliders on the top edge come into play to adjust effect settings.

Two peddals connect via bluetooth to enable you to control the guitar from the floor if you choose, without wires!

Then you can connect the guitar to a box that connects to your computer with supplied editing software to fine tune your tunings and patches, download new ones from the web and upload them to the guitar them as well as record your guitar.

It comes with a strap and a case that is designed to protect the guitar from a fall from 6 floors up and light enough for taking on board an aircraft. Also spare batteries and power supplies.

Everything you could want in a guitar all built into one instrument. Is this the future of the guitar or just a gimmic?

guidothepimmp

I guess for the musician that does home recording, or experiments with electronics, this is awesome..

For me personally it's waaaaay too much..

My vote is gimmick

ftcl

guidothepimmp wrote: I guess for the musician that does home recording, or experiments with electronics, this is awesome..

For me personally it's waaaaay too much..

My vote is gimmick

I second that. Especially at that price.

Now if only they offered a standard analog version, that would be a whole different story...

AlanRatcliffe

It was discussed at length after it came out.

http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/just-when-you-thought-it-couldn%27t-get-uglier/
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-gear/gibson-firebird-x/
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/the-gibson-firebird-x-ugliest-guitar-ever-made/

I think most of what was said still stands.

Shibbibilybob

My thoughts on the topic:

Electronics date. Anyone who had an early digital multi-effects unit will remember well that millisecond of silence between switching presets.
Newer units don't do that. they've improved.
Now, if you had a guitar with an old multi-effects built in, you would need either to replace your guitar, or be happy with a tiny second of switching silence whilst everyone else's cyberguitars switch instantly.

I never had a guitar with built in effects, so I just needed to buy a new effects processor...well I didn't, I bought individual pedals, but my point remains the same:

Electronics date, guitars don't! In my humble opinion this is 100% gimmick.

Bob-Dubery

It's the future, but not perfectly realised.

Consider hybrid cars. The first serious attempt, available for sale to the public, was the Toyota Prius. Which, actually, was not particularly green and didn't have particularly great consumption (though, as with all cars, the heaviness of the right foot makes a difference). But it was a first go. There always has to be a first go. It's never perfect, but it's a first try which enables the technology to be put to a good test so that it can be improved.

We can snigger at the Prius, but in the meantime other manufacturers are now taking the hybrid car plunge, and from 2014 F1 cars will be able to use sophisticated energy reuse systems and will HAVE to be travel by recycled power only - not for racing, but in the pit lane, which will prove that the technology recovers energy from various sources - chiefly exhaust heat and braking - store it and reuse it. F1 being what it is, these systems will rapidly shrink so that they take up less space and weigh less.

The future tends to arrive incrementally. The Firebird is the Prius, a first step that somebody had to take so that the technology can be road tested and improve.

DonRoos

I like the self tuning as this can save a lot of time, if it is accurate. Often when I tune with a tuner and it reads true, I still need to tweek a string or two till it sounds good to me.

I like the fact that they have built in effects but this is limiting as you are restricted to the effects they have chosen. There are some prety effective computer effects applications that give more flexibility with selection and tweeking and think having an iPad built in may be a better way to go. Their controls may look flashy but there are two many different switches all operating differently to be intuitive. A touch screen is a better way to go with consistent controls.

But to me, the biggest problem is strings. They corrode, stretch and break and need constant replacement. Also, much of the tone is attributed to the gauge and type of string and this is the missing piece. One of the other threads mentioned lasers but this will lack tactile feedback. Perhaps each fret should have string shaped switches that are pressure sensative and also 'bendable' with side movement. But then software will have to interpret these switches and turn them into tones and this will require much development to get it accurate.

I agree that some of the features are the future but it is not a very well put together guitar. And it us ugly and I would not want to own one.

Psean

DonRoos wrote: Often when I tune with a tuner and it reads true, I still need to tweek a string or two till it sounds good to me.
I agree that some of the features are the future but it is not a very well put together guitar. And it us ugly and I would not want to own one.

What tuner do you use?
And ja, besides all the electronic crap (irrespective of whether it's the future or not, I'm not a fan) it is super ugly!

Shibbibilybob

X-rated Bob wrote: It's the future, but not perfectly realised.

Consider hybrid cars. The first serious attempt, available for sale to the public, was the Toyota Prius. Which, actually, was not particularly green and didn't have particularly great consumption (though, as with all cars, the heaviness of the right foot makes a difference). But it was a first go. There always has to be a first go. It's never perfect, but it's a first try which enables the technology to be put to a good test so that it can be improved.

We can snigger at the Prius, but in the meantime other manufacturers are now taking the hybrid car plunge, and from 2014 F1 cars will be able to use sophisticated energy reuse systems and will HAVE to be travel by recycled power only - not for racing, but in the pit lane, which will prove that the technology recovers energy from various sources - chiefly exhaust heat and braking - store it and reuse it. F1 being what it is, these systems will rapidly shrink so that they take up less space and weigh less.

Where this analogy comes undone is that there was a very real need for hybrid cars. Cars that move on fossil fuel combustion are not a viable option for the future. We HAD to develop an alternative and the Prius was the first step.

This is different, we don't HAVE to put on board electronics on guitars. There is no imminent shortage of rackmount and floor-based effects units.
Even if we did, this would not be the Prius, that would have been the Vg strat or the Les Paul/Sg robot from a few years ago...remember those? no, because they are now relegated to the archives of "instruments we no longer make" and rightly so.

Bob-Dubery

Shibbibilybob wrote: Where this analogy comes undone is that there was a very real need for hybrid cars. Cars that move on fossil fuel combustion are not a viable option for the future. We HAD to develop an alternative and the Prius was the first step.

This is different, we don't HAVE to put on board electronics on guitars. There is no imminent shortage of rackmount and floor-based effects units.

Even if we did, this would not be the Prius, that would have been the Vg strat or the Les Paul/Sg robot from a few years ago...remember those? no, because they are now relegated to the archives of "instruments we no longer make" and rightly so.

Maybe.

I'm thinking that it costs a lot of money to lug around lots of guitars and amps and pedals so that you can have the right sound for each song. Even for big bands. And there's the whole carbon footprint thing. Sooner or later somebody's going to twig that the Edge needs a small airliner just to take his kit from gig to gig.

Already it's getting expensive to have gigs in some parts of London because it costs you to get each truck in, and then you can only keep them parked there so long.

What about the artists whose earning power is a little less than U2s? Who player smaller venues, who have smaller budgets? Or session players? Many years ago Tommy Tedesco used to have a column in some magazine I used to read (Guitar Player?) and he was lugging around a scary amount of gear for each session (in LA they have specialist companies that will pick up your kit, drive it to the next studio real carefully and then set it up for you). A guitar that will enable him to dial in a sound instead of having to get another guitar out of it's case and the mic up another amp could be an attractive proposition.

Having a guitar like this could mean a studio player needing to carry one guitar and a laptop and being able to use taxis and underground services to get from session to session, or being able to put it all into the boot of his car.

I think there's a market for this kind of instrument.

Shibbibilybob

fair enough Bob ? I'd not looked at it in that way.
I guess sometimes you kind of mark your own views and needs as the base line, and anyone either side of you is the extremist. So, taking my own bias into account:

I do see the potential for such a guitar to fill a gap in the market. However, a player like myself has no need for one.
Added to that, I think Gibson would have been better off launching this model on an body design that wasn't already in production.

That said, we've all seen how well received Gibsons post-sg designs have been, and I guess looking at that I can understand why they would use an established model. And maybe even more so why it's an obscure model and not an SG or LP.

So I take back my previous conclusion.

Is this a dream guitar or a gimmick? That depends on your needs ?

Psean

X-rated Bob wrote:
I'm thinking that it costs a lot of money to lug around lots of guitars and amps and pedals so that you can have the right sound for each song. Even for big bands. And there's the whole carbon footprint thing. Sooner or later somebody's going to twig that the Edge needs a small airliner just to take his kit from gig to gig.

Already it's getting expensive to have gigs in some parts of London because it costs you to get each truck in, and then you can only keep them parked there so long.

What about the artists whose earning power is a little less than U2s? Who player smaller venues, who have smaller budgets? Or session players? Many years ago Tommy Tedesco used to have a column in some magazine I used to read (Guitar Player?) and he was lugging around a scary amount of gear for each session (in LA they have specialist companies that will pick up your kit, drive it to the next studio real carefully and then set it up for you). A guitar that will enable him to dial in a sound instead of having to get another guitar out of it's case and the mic up another amp could be an attractive proposition.

Having a guitar like this could mean a studio player needing to carry one guitar and a laptop and being able to use taxis and underground services to get from session to session, or being able to put it all into the boot of his car.

I think there's a market for this kind of instrument.

Would a multi-effects unit with modeling or a synth that can be driven by a "normal" electric (or one that has a hexaphonic (i think?) pickup) not be able to provide something similar. You'd still be able to transport that on the tube.

Bob-Dubery

Psean wrote: Would a multi-effects unit with modeling or a synth that can be driven by a "normal" electric (or one that has a hexaphonic (i think?) pickup) not be able to provide something similar. You'd still be able to transport that on the tube.

I guess, but it wouldn't do the tuning thing. How big a deal is that?

I'm not punting the Firebird specifically, but I can see a point to this sort of small, portable rig. Depending on how much processor powere the Firebird has you may not even need a laptop.

I think this is an interesting development. Not perfect, by any means, but as I said above these things are never perfect the first time.

Psean

X-rated Bob wrote:
Psean wrote: Would a multi-effects unit with modeling or a synth that can be driven by a "normal" electric (or one that has a hexaphonic (i think?) pickup) not be able to provide something similar. You'd still be able to transport that on the tube.
I guess, but it wouldn't do the tuning thing. How big a deal is that?

I'm not punting the Firebird specifically, but I can see a point to this sort of small, portable rig. Depending on how much processor power the Firebird has you may not even need a laptop.

I think this is an interesting development. Not perfect, by any means, but as I said above these things are never perfect the first time.

Ja, it can't do the tuning thing, but like you said, how big a deal is that?
A portable, versatile rig is definitely something of real value though.

IceCreamMan

its a gimick that will die .....

...the lugging stuff around is not valid ....

the day of the guitar with an IP address logging onto the cloud and having the effects needed online is already possible, no need to have them onboard the guitar.

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: What about the artists whose earning power is a little less than U2s? Who player smaller venues, who have smaller budgets?

And personal gear is already getting smaller and lighter to reflect that (look at bass amps these days!). Guitarists have moved to smaller amps and are content to let the PA do all the heavy lifting. The better venues these days have backline as well as PA (particularly overseas). Players are going back to using one or two flexible guitars (particularly the pros) and amp modelling pedals are commonplace on pedalboards. Players also have multiple pedalboards, including smaller "travelling" boards.

Or session players?

Different scenario entirely. A variety of guitars, amps and effects is always superior to a "one-size-fits-all" solution. Studios will usually have all the gear a player will need on hand. Producers give pre-production riders to the studio and if the studio doesn't have the gear themselves, they hire it for the session. That's the way it's been for decades and there are companies specialising in hiring out top quality, well maintained gear to studios in big industry towns like LA and Nashville.

Tedesco was not a normal session player because he played just about every instrument with strings on it, but I'm sure if he were around in the current climate, he would be making sure what he was going to be called on to play at a session beforehand.

I think there's a market for this kind of instrument.

I still don't. It's been proven time and again that guitarists don't want guitars with effects built in. They would rather have a modular system like pedals, where they can pick and mix to populate a small board for a specific show or a powerful multieffect where they can program the same. Far easier to upgrade a multi effect every year than your guitar (regardless of how Gibson would love to get players into a regular upgrade cycle). And don't get me started on inane tech like "robot" tuning...

ezietsman

IceCreamMan wrote: its a gimick that will die .....

...the lugging stuff around is not valid ....

the day of the guitar with an IP address logging onto the cloud and having the effects needed online is already possible, no need to have them onboard the guitar.

Good grief. Imagine needing an Anti-virus program fer yer guitar O_o

Shibbibilybob

IceCreamMan wrote: its a gimick that will die .....

...the lugging stuff around is not valid ....

the day of the guitar with an IP address logging onto the cloud and having the effects needed online is already possible, no need to have them onboard the guitar.

Now that I feel is a much more explorable idea. Your guitar need not keep up with the times, it need only have a network interface.
They could even sell hosted pedal setups! You could buy "pedals" and have them placed in your own little corner of the cloud. This is a very interesting idea to me, and I like it a lot.
However, I'd rather have my guitar be stock standard as it is now, and plug it out into some kind of network adapter than have the wireless interface on my guitar itself...I'm old school.

IceCreamMan

Shibbibilybob wrote:
IceCreamMan wrote: its a gimick that will die .....

...the lugging stuff around is not valid ....

the day of the guitar with an IP address logging onto the cloud and having the effects needed online is already possible, no need to have them onboard the guitar.
Now that I feel is a much more explorable idea. Your guitar need not keep up with the times, it need only have a network interface.
They could even sell hosted pedal setups! You could buy "pedals" and have them placed in your own little corner of the cloud. This is a very interesting idea to me, and I like it a lot.
However, I'd rather have my guitar be stock standard as it is now, and plug it out into some kind of network adapter than have the wireless interface on my guitar itself...I'm old school.

exactly like that ...its possible techno wise already..this gibson gives one limited ability and will need constant upgrading ...and its bloody expensive too.

setting up virtual pedal boards with potential to swop , change , rent etc infinitely a better idea..... although bandwidth is at a premium in ZA , overseas where guitars are made there more bandwidth and its fast , super fast. even in ZA round trip time is < 200 ms.... no reason why it cannot be done and one day it will be the norm i reckon.

yr idea is better i reckon..keep guitar standard .....

AlanRatcliffe

Shibbibilybob wrote: the day of the guitar with an IP address logging onto the cloud and having the effects needed online is already possible, no need to have them onboard the guitar.

Now that I feel is a much more explorable idea. Your guitar need not keep up with the times, it need only have a network interface.
They could even sell hosted pedal setups! You could buy "pedals" and have them placed in your own little corner of the cloud.[/quote]
Well, look at TC Electronic's Toneprint tech and you'll see we are already there. More than that, what about expanding that to guitar modelling? Downloading a model of David Gilmore's Strat or Greeny's Les Paul... My Fishman Aura already lets me do that with acoustic guitar images... As woods get rarer and modelling/imaging tech marches on, it's almost an inevitability.