So, it continues...

AlanRatcliffe

I don't mind them clamping down on restaurants that open in residential areas with temporary licences and then start hosting loud music, but when they start targeting live music venues that have been there for much longer than most of the houses, let alone the complaining residents, it's too much. If you don't do your homework before you buy a house/build a retirement village next to a long established music venue, Caveat Emptor applies - you don't get to shut the venue down.

Similarly, clamping down on venues in business areas like Long Street in Cape Town is ridiculous.

SAPS Shuts Down Live Music At The Brass Bell

Only two-person acts with no drums and amplification allowed

The South African Police Service has allegedly ordered the Brass Bell restaurant in Kalk Bay to cease hosting live bands.

In a letter to supporters and artists, venue booking agent Alex Wise explained that the order arose from resident complaints in the surrounding area.

"We had the SAPS come over to the venue on Wednesday and tell us that we have to stop all full live music moving forward, with the exception of having 2-man acoustic bands with no drums or amplification.

"The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue and karaoke night every Tuesday. Bottom line, the actual live music isn't the issue, which is really frustrating," she wrote.

The venue plans to lobby the local authorities to reconsider the position, adding that they were prepared to limit the live acts to 5-7 hours per week, with a cut-off time of 11pm.

Source: http://www.rollingstone.co.za/musicrev/item/1172-saps-shuts-down-live-music-at-the-brass-bell

Bob-Dubery

And the by-laws that get passed are often not well-considered.

There's a been a clamp down on live music in pubs in England the last few years. But the laws are full of things about people playing instruments. So in some areas it's illegal to have somebody playing unplugged classical guitar, but legal to have karaoke.

IceCreamMan

X-rated Bob wrote
There's a been a clamp down on live music in pubs in England the last few years. But the laws are full of things about people playing instruments. So in some areas it's illegal to have somebody playing unplugged classical guitar, but legal to have karaoke.

Vigourously monitored too .... decibel meters the whole trip ...some places have trip switches , if the decibels go over a certain levle power is tripped to the venue....believe it, cos its true.

nick

IceCreamMan wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
There's a been a clamp down on live music in pubs in England the last few years. But the laws are full of things about people playing instruments. So in some areas it's illegal to have somebody playing unplugged classical guitar, but legal to have karaoke.

Vigourously monitored too .... decibel meters the whole trip ...some places have trip switches , if the decibels go over a certain levle power is tripped to the venue....believe it, cos its true.

I saw that! Was in a pub in London earlier this year and after a few (too many) beers I was mesmorized by this decibel meter ?

Reinhard

nick wrote
IceCreamMan wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
There's a been a clamp down on live music in pubs in England the last few years. But the laws are full of things about people playing instruments. So in some areas it's illegal to have somebody playing unplugged classical guitar, but legal to have karaoke.

Vigourously monitored too .... decibel meters the whole trip ...some places have trip switches , if the decibels go over a certain levle power is tripped to the venue....believe it, cos its true.

I saw that! Was in a pub in London earlier this year and after a few (too many) beers I was mesmorized by this decibel meter ?

You left the hotel room ???

Bob-Dubery

IceCreamMan wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
There's a been a clamp down on live music in pubs in England the last few years. But the laws are full of things about people playing instruments. So in some areas it's illegal to have somebody playing unplugged classical guitar, but legal to have karaoke.

Vigourously monitored too .... decibel meters the whole trip ...some places have trip switches , if the decibels go over a certain levle power is tripped to the venue....believe it, cos its true.

The plug famously got pulled on Bruce Springsteen's jam with Paul McCartney in Hyde Park last week. The show went on past the agreed cut off time and the promoters pulled the plug on the PA (apparently the on-stage amps and the monitors were still working so it took the Boss a while to figure out what was going on).

As a householder who likes his peace and quiet at nights I do have some sympathy for people who object to noise late at night, but it's different in the sort of case that Alan highlights where the club was there first. And in business areas it's a bit daft.

And it has to be evenly applied on the basis of measurable sound levels. See my example of unplugged classical guitar being outlawed but not a noisy karaoke night. The issue should be the amount of noise, not how it's being generated.

In England it seems to be by-laws, varying from county to county or town to town. When we went to see Martin Simpson in the teeming metropolis of North Boarhunt, Hampshire we were offered ear plugs when we went in. It was a live music event and so the organisers had to provide ear protection for all the attendants (it had to be offered, usage was voluntary). At a Martin Simpson gig. I haven't seen that happen in other areas (though cut off times seem to be quite common now) so I presume that it's local to Hampshire or to the municipality in which North Boarhunt lies.

Nitebob

This might be slightly off topic, but I believe you'll see where I am going with this. Friend of mine had a smal chicken farm just outside Rayton (east of Pretoria) the small toen kept expanding and suddenly he was told that he cannot farm in town. He had to relocate his agricultural endeavours elsewhere. I was speechless...

Bob-Dubery

X-rated Bob wrote In England it seems to be by-laws, varying from county to county or town to town. When we went to see Martin Simpson in the teeming metropolis of North Boarhunt, Hampshire we were offered ear plugs when we went in. It was a live music event and so the organisers had to provide ear protection for all the attendants (it had to be offered, usage was voluntary).

Actually this illustrates the challenge that the law makers and enforcers place. You can't see "oh, it' acoustic guitar so that's OK". Simpson was playing with his band (accordion and double bass) and there was some amplification but nothing hellacious. But I've seen Richard Thompson playing solo shows with just an acoustic and he is freaking loud.

So limiting gigs on the basis of definitions of instruments or whatever doesn't guarantee anybody a good night's sleep. Simpson can play in my road any time he likes. I'd like at least two suburbs between me and Thompson (assuming I wasn't at the gig, so it's hypothetical, but I'd take something to stuff in my ears).

Psean

Nitebob wrote This might be slightly off topic, but I believe you'll see where I am going with this. Friend of mine had a smal chicken farm just outside Rayton (east of Pretoria) the small toen kept expanding and suddenly he was told that he cannot farm in town. He had to relocate his agricultural endeavours elsewhere. I was speechless...

Madness!
It is the same kind of principle. I mean, how long has The Bell been around? And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote The issue should be the amount of noise, not how it's being generated.

Exactly. And measurement should be to ISO standards. There was a case with the Brass bell about 15 years ago, where they measured something ridiculous, but it turned out to be the untrained council guy sticking the measurement mic up against the speaker grille. When they went back and measured it properly, it turned out within legal limits and further tests from the road side showed that the sea was far louder than the music.

The bloody-minded side of me says "OK. Two acoustic musicians? Fine. Now, where did I put my Taiko and steel drums?". Not helpful in the long run though, but would be fun for a while. ?

Psean wrote It is the same kind of principle. I mean, how long has The Bell been around?

31 years. The Three arts was forced to close because of noise too.

And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.

Or Karaeoke. And if you limit the drinking hours, all you do is make people drink faster.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.
Or Karaeoke. And if you limit the drinking hours, all you do is make people drink faster.

Surely all that's needed is for the cops to tell the yobs to go home. Now. Immediately if not sooner. And quietly. Or else alternative sleeping arrangements can be made.

Psean

X-rated Bob wrote
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.
Or Karaeoke. And if you limit the drinking hours, all you do is make people drink faster.
Surely all that's needed is for the cops to tell the yobs to go home. Now. Immediately if not sooner. And quietly. Or else alternative sleeping arrangements can be made.

+1
Deal with the actual problem (or as close to it as possible)

FruitarGeek

Alan Ratcliffe wrote I don't mind them clamping down on restaurants that open in residential areas with temporary licences and then start hosting loud music, but when they start targeting live music venues that have been there for much longer than most of the houses, let alone the complaining residents, it's too much. If you don't do your homework before you buy a house/build a retirement village next to a long established music venue, Caveat Emptor applies - you don't get to shut the venue down.

Well, I remember from studying Property Law, that actually the notion of "Caveat Emptor" does not apply if you purchasing a house in a noisy neighbourhood. The idea behind this is that everyone is entitled to privacy and peace of mind. And with constant 'noise' they arn't given that, and it has actually shown some type of psychological effect. The case I read was this couple who moved on Long Street (silly I know), and where complaining because one club or Broadway show that was operating at the time had a show that was going on every night for the past few years, and they knew this! Still, the Broadway show had to treat its venue with insane sound proofing, just to meet the requirements.

My point is, you can have a knit of a neighbour move into a suburb, where everyone else is happy with lets say a music venue, and he can single handedly cause some major annoyances to that venue.

Nitebob

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.
Or Karaeoke.

...or a freakin jukebox...

Psean

Nitebob wrote
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
And the point that "The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue" is ridiculous. People are going to get sloshed as long as there's a steady supply of alcohol irrespective of whether there's a full band or just an acoustic duo.
Or Karaeoke.
...or a freakin jukebox...

+1
Even pool tables. Or TVs with sport. Any form of entertainment

Jack-Flash-Jr

Our gig at the Bell on 11th Aug cancelled for this reason ☹
Here's the full text of the letter from Alex:
Hey All!!

Hope you're all well ?

Firstly, I just want to thank you all for your support over the last 6 months regarding bringing live music back to The Brass Bell and the deep South.
It's been great working with all of you and it's been an honour to have you guys performing on our stage!

The reason why I've cc'd you all into this mail is because I have some sad news.

As you're all aware we have had full, live bands performing at The Brass Bell every weekend.
The Brass Bell is also the only music venue in the Deep South.
The support from fans, musicians etc, has been incredible! Every weekend has been packed out and our rep has been growing substantially.
It's at the point where I have 3 months of headliners booked up!!!
It hasn't been easy getting things up and running, but passion and dedication goes a long way.

We had the SAPS come over to the venue on Wednesday and tell us that we have to stop all full live music moving forward, with the exception of having 2 man acoustic bands with no drums or amplification.
As you can imagine, the news is pretty devastating.
The reason for this is due to a a substantial amount of complaints from the residents in the area.
The main issue has been disturbances caused by intoxicated people leaving the venue, predominantly on Tuesday karaoke nights and Friday DJ electro nights.
Bottom line, the actual live music isn't the issue, which is really frustrating.

As you can imagine, this has put me in a really tough position, and has quite frankly broken my heart. 7 months of blood and sweat to get The Bell back and rocking, only to be shut down because of people and their BS. Those of you that know me personally, know how much love I have for this venue.

The other frustrating part about it is that all we ask for is 4 -5 hours of live music a week. 11pm cut off time.
We have some old stubborn residents who are being very unresponsive.

What this means for the bands is that at this point we can't have any full set up performances. Every show has to be stripped down to an unplugged performance with NO DRUMS. We can still "plug in" but levels have to be monitored and has to be off by 11pm.
All the dates booked still stand. It's up to you whether you're happy to perform an acoustic set or if you would prefer to cancel, which I totally understand.

I'm not prepared to let this go without a fight. We need to keep local, original music alive and that means we NEED venues!
We're working on a petition and would greatly appreciate as many bands, promoters, bookers, fans to sign. The more noise we make regarding this issue, the more chance we have of keeping this venue alive.
I also plan to join the monthly community forum and try to come to some kind of agreement with the residents so that we can all benefit.

Any help or advice would be awesome.

You can also email The Bell directly - info@brassbell.co.za - to let them know your thoughts.
Like I said, the more involvement we can have from all of you, the better chance we have of sticking it to the man!!

Look forward to your responses!!

Many Thanks,
Alex

072 674 8703
The Brass Bell
Venue Promoter

AlanRatcliffe

Jack Flash Jr wrote Our gig at the Bell on 11th Aug cancelled for this reason ☹
Here's the full text of the letter from Alex:

Thanks! Can you PM me Alex's direct email addy please?

Nitebob

? Our two best exports..music (how long has it taken us to get there) and wine...not to be enjoyed together.... ???

AlanRatcliffe

Nitebob wrote ? Our two best exports..music (how long has it taken us to get there) and wine...not to be enjoyed together.... ???

And the best of both gets exported. ☹

Keira-WitherKay

This is where a strong musicians union would lobby to keep musicians earning income , and it sounds like the venue is being reasonable with cut off times , but like we all know we as musicians have little clout ,