Higgs boson found?

Warren

Looks like the possibility is strong of having found a rather elusive piece of the standard model of physics 8)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/120704-god-particle-higgs-boson-new-cern-science/

vic

Indeed an exciting discovery with an only 1/1,000,000 chance of being a stats fluke. The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field. The search for the graviton, the theoretical particle thought to be associated with gravity, is probably now also taken care of if the Higgs particle/field is confirmed.
Travelling at the speed of light could also now receive new attention because if your spaceship can be "modified" in such a way that it does not interact with the Higgs field, it would be rendered almost massless and thus could be accellerated to very high velocities. Exciting times indeed.

psyx

Me and another engineering student had a lengthy talk about the new boson particle this morning...And at the risk of sounding like a cave man... Its all very awesome and nice and I've been following all of the developments of the Large Hadron Collider, but the question is, apart from a philosophical point of view by knowing more about the universe and the nature of matter, does it really have any real life applications or implications for the normal people? The last time quantum mechanics really had a notable effect on society was almost 50 years ago. I must admit,

Vic wrote: Indeed an exciting discovery with an only 1/1,000,000 chance of being a stats fluke. The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field. The search for the graviton, the theoretical particle thought to be associated with gravity, is probably now also taken care of if the Higgs particle/field is confirmed.
Travelling at the speed of light could also now receive new attention because if your spaceship can be "modified" in such a way that it does not interact with the Higgs field, it would be rendered almost massless and thus could be accellerated to very high velocities. Exciting times indeed.

I didn't know about that idea for utilizing the Higgs field for space travel... So that's quite refreshing and it gives me hope for humanity ?

But still, that's decades away... The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely? If that money had been spent on Fuel cell technology, we would all be driving Hydrogen powered cars by now and the energy crisis would have been slightly averted.

Just my 5c.. :-\

vic

psyx wrote: Me and another engineering student had a lengthy talk about the new boson particle this morning...And at the risk of sounding like a cave man... Its all very awesome and nice and I've been following all of the developments of the Large Hadron Collider, but the question is, apart from a philosophical point of view by knowing more about the universe and the nature of matter, does it really have any real life applications or implications for the normal people? The last time quantum mechanics really had a notable effect on society was almost 50 years ago. I must admit,
Vic wrote: Indeed an exciting discovery with an only 1/1,000,000 chance of being a stats fluke. The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field. The search for the graviton, the theoretical particle thought to be associated with gravity, is probably now also taken care of if the Higgs particle/field is confirmed.
Travelling at the speed of light could also now receive new attention because if your spaceship can be "modified" in such a way that it does not interact with the Higgs field, it would be rendered almost massless and thus could be accellerated to very high velocities. Exciting times indeed.
I didn't know about that idea for utilizing the Higgs field for space travel... So that's quite refreshing and it gives me hope for humanity ?

But still, that's decades away... The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely? If that money had been spent on Fuel cell technology, we would all be driving Hydrogen powered cars by now and the energy crisis would have been slightly averted.

Just my 5c.. :-\

Einstein's theory of relativity, published in the early 1900's was deemed "irrelevant" at the time. Today we are using applications thereof in GPS and to accurately calculate/explain the orbits of planets (apologies to Newton) and to cummunicate with our satellites over vast distances ? Investment in the LHC is perhaps expensive for now...but in order to understand Nature better at the fundamental level, it was necessary....no short cuts here. The SKA project is also very expensive..... So is the search for extraterrestial intelligence (SETI).....all biiiig money. ?

Reinhard

Higgs Boson particle walks into a Catholic church. Priest asks: "What are you doing here?" Particle says: "You can't have mass without me."

*Baddaboom dish* I'm here all week folks.

psyx

Vic wrote:
psyx wrote: Me and another engineering student had a lengthy talk about the new boson particle this morning...And at the risk of sounding like a cave man... Its all very awesome and nice and I've been following all of the developments of the Large Hadron Collider, but the question is, apart from a philosophical point of view by knowing more about the universe and the nature of matter, does it really have any real life applications or implications for the normal people? The last time quantum mechanics really had a notable effect on society was almost 50 years ago. I must admit,
Vic wrote: Indeed an exciting discovery with an only 1/1,000,000 chance of being a stats fluke. The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field. The search for the graviton, the theoretical particle thought to be associated with gravity, is probably now also taken care of if the Higgs particle/field is confirmed.
Travelling at the speed of light could also now receive new attention because if your spaceship can be "modified" in such a way that it does not interact with the Higgs field, it would be rendered almost massless and thus could be accellerated to very high velocities. Exciting times indeed.
I didn't know about that idea for utilizing the Higgs field for space travel... So that's quite refreshing and it gives me hope for humanity ?

But still, that's decades away... The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely? If that money had been spent on Fuel cell technology, we would all be driving Hydrogen powered cars by now and the energy crisis would have been slightly averted.

Just my 5c.. :-\
Einstein's theory of relativity, published in the early 1900's was deemed "irrelevant" at the time. Today we are using applications thereof in GPS and to accurately calculate/explain the orbits of planets (apologies to Newton) and to cummunicate with our satellites over vast distances ? Investment in the LHC is perhaps expensive for now...but in order to understand Nature better at the fundamental level, it was necessary....no short cuts here. The SKA project is also very expensive..... So is the search for extraterrestial intelligence (SETI).....all biiiig money. ?

Valid point! But lets hope the LHC delivers alot of other breakthroughs as well to justify the cost!

rikus

psyx wrote: The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely? If that money had been spent on Fuel cell technology, we would all be driving Hydrogen powered cars by now and the energy crisis would have been slightly averted.

Just my 5c.. :-\

Here's how I see it (taking into consideration that my formal science eduction consists of the high school science curriculum and a whole lot of time wasted on wikipedia), it has long since been theorised that the higgs needs to exists if the current standard model thinking were to remain accepted, and as a result scientists understand quote a bit about how such a particle is supposed to look and behave.

By proving it exists it means that science was/is still on the right track as far as the standard model is concerned. A much bigger whooha would have been CERN's failure to find the higgs as that would mean that a key building block in the standard models theory, relating to why certain things have mass and other don't, would be wrong... leaving us back at square 1.

vic

Rikus wrote:
psyx wrote: The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely? If that money had been spent on Fuel cell technology, we would all be driving Hydrogen powered cars by now and the energy crisis would have been slightly averted.

Just my 5c.. :-\
Here's how I see it (taking into consideration that my formal science eduction consists of the high school science curriculum and a whole lot of time wasted on wikipedia), it has long since been theorised that the higgs needs to exists if the current standard model thinking were to remain accepted, and as a result scientists understand quote a bit about how such a particle is supposed to look and behave.

By proving it exists it means that science was/is still on the right track as far as the standard model is concerned. A much bigger whooha would have been CERN's failure to find the higgs as that would mean that a key building block in the standard models theory, relating to why certain things have mass and other don't, would be wrong... leaving us back at square 1.

Scientists must have had a very strong notion that the Higgs (or similar) would be found in the LHC at CERN...imagine they found f...all ? Can you imagine how many heads would have rolled ? It could easily have been the most expensive tunnel in the world ! ?

Zulublues

Reinhard wrote: Higgs Boson particle walks into a Catholic church. Priest asks: "What are you doing here?" Particle says: "You can't have mass without me."

*Baddaboom dish* I'm here all week folks.

Har, Har,Har !!!

rikus

Vic wrote: Scientists must have had a very strong notion that the Higgs (or similar) would be found in the LHC at CERN...imagine they found f...all ? Can you imagine how many heads would have rolled ? It could easily have been the most expensive tunnel in the world ! ?

? Yeah... large quantities of egg on face. I still think they're discovering truckloads of other things as well as it's all uncharted territory as far as the energy level they're operating at goes...

Sean

The Higgs boson. No sooner had they found it...

BMU

But still, that's decades away... The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely?

No. We couldn't.

In fact it's a rare affirmation that the human race does not have its cranium *completely* inserted into its own backside that something like this can actually get funding despite the strewn boulder field of dumbass beaurocracy that must've stood in the way.

I'ts a measly $11bn (or so), think of it as ~1% of what it costs to save "too big to fail" sh*head banks, who do nothing but shuffle paper. An absolute bargain for something truly new under the sun.

psyx

BMU wrote:
But still, that's decades away... The LHC cost alot of money. Couldn't we have spent it a bit more wisely?
No. We couldn't.

In fact it's a rare affirmation that the human race does not have its cranium *completely* inserted into its own backside that something like this can actually get funding despite the strewn boulder field of dumbass beaurocracy that must've stood in the way.

I'ts a measly $11bn (or so), think of it as ~1% of what it costs to save "too big to fail" sh*head banks, who do nothing but shuffle paper. An absolute bargain for something truly new under the sun.

True... Since almost all of Europe is flat broke now, its a good thing this project was started a few years before these troubles started... But Im probably being very hypocritical by saying they could have spent their money more wisely since I usually end up buying guitar gear with my spare cash... Which most people wouldn't call a wise investment. But they just dont understand

BMU

Which most people wouldn't call a wise investment. But they just dont understand

Wise words indeed! I knew a guitarist would understand ?

Yeah... large quantities of egg on face.

Nooooo... Positively confirming there is NO Higgs boson would have been an equally valid outcome. You still need to conduct the experiment, either to prove or disprove. Otherwise you're just making sh*t up and hoping for the best...again more like politics and economics haha.

The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field.

Explain dark matter how? According to my feeble understanding of such things, Higgs just explains why things have mass. We still don't know what dark matter is. (We already know dark matter has mass. That's why they think it has to be there.)

Unless you're veering off into Higgs proves supersymmetry territory, which is a bit of a leap to make still, again as I ineptly read these things.

DonovanB

Does it all matter?

ba-dum-tish....

I find it amazing how something so small can be such a significant discovery. I love that science moves forward, the more these guys understand now, the more we'll know later.

Thuli Madonsela spoke at my sister's graduation and she said,

This generation of students know so much more than I knew when I graduated, and probably still more than I know now.

Isn't that the beauty of education, progress?

vic

Donovan Banks wrote: Does it all matter?

ba-dum-tish....

I find it amazing how something so small can be such a significant discovery. I love that science moves forward, the more these guys understand now, the more we'll know later.

Thuli Madonsela spoke at my sister's graduation and she said,
This generation of students know so much more than I knew when I graduated, and probably still more than I know now.
Isn't that the beauty of education, progress?

+1 Don

BMU

Does...what? Does it matter? You're made of almost infinitely many leptons, quarks and, you know, all that really small stuff. It matters.

Also, this wine is pretty good right now. ?

And Thuli rocks.

vic

BMU wrote:
Which most people wouldn't call a wise investment. But they just dont understand
Wise words indeed! I knew a guitarist would understand ?

Yeah... large quantities of egg on face.
Nooooo... Positively confirming there is NO Higgs boson would have been an equally valid outcome. You still need to conduct the experiment, either to prove or disprove. Otherwise you're just making sh*t up and hoping for the best...again more like politics and economics haha.

The Higgs particle may now explain why we can account for only about 4% of the mass of the observable universe...the rest may now be due to "dark matter',which although unobservable to our instruments, actually has mass due to its interaction with the Higgs field.
Explain dark matter how? According to my feeble understanding of such things, Higgs just explains why things have mass. We still don't know what dark matter is. (We already know dark matter has mass. That's why they think it has to be there.)

Unless you're veering off into Higgs proves supersymmetry territory, which is a bit of a leap to make still, again as I ineptly read these things.

Dark matter, as you know, is a term used to explain the anomoly of not being able to (mass)- balance the books of the observable universe. "We" were only guessing that there must be some unseen stuff that has mass. So IF the existence of a Higgs field/boson can be proved it would just make the dark matter theory more plausible...that's all. We may never fully understand what dark matter is...but we can at least now speculate with more confidence that the unaccounted mass IS there because there IS a Higgs field (which imparts mass to even unseen matter....up to now only Prof Higgs believed that). In the absence of a Higgs field we would have had to change our theory of such. That's why Prof Higgs got so emotional when the result at CERN was announced. The reality of a Higgs field should also strenghten string theory perhaps..and maybe in this lies the explanation of what dark matter is...??

Wizard

I think they'd be more honest if they called dark matter "missing matter"
?

Gearhead

The way I understand what has been announced, is that they will still need to prove that the particles they measured are actually the ones they were looking for - yes there is five sigma a particle but no, we don't know if it is a Higgs boson and no, we do not know how this interacts with the other particles we can measure. So rather than the end of a quest, this is the beginning of a whole lot more colliding...