My last question on drum VSTi's

deefstes

OK, I have to start with an apology because I know this question has been asked and answered hundreds of times but I'm having a real hard time deciding between EZDrummer and Addictive Drums.

The reason the previous answers hasn't helped me making up my mind is because they're usually of the format "Get Addictive Drums, it's the bizniz!" or "Get EZDrummer, it is totally dope!". Also, you'd usually get a few of each of the above in answer to one question.

Maybe it'll help if I describe what I'm looking for in a drum VSTi:

I am not a drummer. I used to play a bit when I was young so I know the absolute basics but I've never gotten into it seriously. I am a guitarist first, a pianist as a distant second and a drummer in the loosest possible sense of the word. So I'm looking for a drum VSTi that would make it possible for me to get drum grooves for my songs without the need of comprehensive knowledge of drums. I don't want to sit for hours coding drum patterns and chances of me using an electronic drum kit to trigger the VSTi is pretty remote. The VSTi with the easier user interface for using and combining existing beats would score high on my ranking system. Similarly, the VSTi with a greater collection of predefined beats would score high on my ranking system.

Also, I've heard people comparing the quality of the drum sounds from the different VSTi's. While I'm sure one might have better samples than the other, that is of less importance to me than usability. I've been told in no uncertain terms that I do not want either of these but rather Steven Slate Drums. I might be wrong on this, but I've watched as many videos as I could and they all seem to punt the awesomeness of the sound that comes out of Steven Slate Drums and they all used an electronic drum kit to trigger the VSTi. It looks like exactly the kind of thing I don't want. It looks the part of the Drum player's drum VSTi. I'm looking for the Guitar player's drum VSTi.

Oh yes, I'm using REAPER so if one of these integrate better with REAPER than the other, I'd love to hear.

Thanks in advance.

(old forum) Poll Results: Which drum VSTi would suit ME best?

Addictive Drums: 0
EZDrummer: 8

evolucian

Well, I don't know the other two as I use ezdrummer, though I've heard that the Steven Slate drums sound brilliant compared to ezdrummer... this was from a drummers perspective.

Personally, I don't give a crap. The ezdrummer works for me and the amount of pre-programmed midi loops I have, I will never be too short of anything to use. I dont touch the eq at all when it comes to the sound of the drums... I'm happy with its stock sound/stock kits etc. The add ons are not that expensive - and it gives you more variety in the form of drumkits and more loops - mostly genre based but easily editable (as in "I'll cut this here and add from this loop cos its livelier on beat 3 or 4" etc). If you need a cymbal just look at the drum map and find it, add it. I don't have to worry about the stereo imaging of the drums either, as its already done by Toontrack for you - and if you feel you have to alter a level or a pan, its easily available on its mixer.

What you end up going for in the end is your choice... but with the premade loops, creativity comes to the fore as I just have to pick up my guitar and play... just have to worry about where i want to add some fills. They have midi packs for sale as well. Plug in and play is what rules at the end of the day.

LooneyAtTheGate

I use EZDrummer with Reaper, and find it really easy to put together a quick demo, say if i want to show the band an idea or whatever.
Although there are a lot of preset beats there isn't much variety, so I usually choose the closest one and then edit it to suit the riff. A bit of EQ and reverb, or some drum mastering presets and I can have a decent sounding riff demo recorded and mastered in 10 minutes. ?

Malkav

I'd also rate going with EZdrummer over Addictive Drums...

I'd also rate going Super Drummer 2.0 over Steven Slate ?

deefstes

Thanks guys, it appears that the majority opinion so far is to go with EZDrummer. I was leaning towards Addictive Drums but EZDrummer is a bit cheaper and I like that.

There's one thing about EZDrummer that worries me a little bit so I'd be grateful if someone could set my mind at ease on that score. Many of the video tutorials on their website seem to put a lot of emphasis on this expansion pack or that effects pack that can be purchased separately. What will I get if I buy EZDrummer only and never ever buy an expansion pack? How will that compare to buying Addictive Drums and never ever buy an expansion pack?

I just don't want to buy the cheaper VSTi of the two, only to find out that, in order for it to really be what I need I'd have to buy a few expansion packs first.

Arno-West

Been using EZdrummer for almost 5 years now and I swear by it for simplicity, ease of use and overall quality of the sound. Add Drumkit from Hell and you have a serious amount of toys to play with. THEN I recently switched over to Superior Drummer - IT'S IN A DIFFERENT GALAXY. Combine the Kick from DFH with The Superior Kick and WHOOT! Fattest Kick I've ever heard. I downloaded a gazillion midi samples off the net. Won't be needing any drum-software soon.

Deefstes....don't waste your time, just get Superior Drummer. (not that EZ is bad...it actually kicks serious buttocks)

symbolofmylife

Deefstes,

I recall now you asked on my fb what the drum stuff was I was using for that recording sample I posted over the weekend, and I mentioned I was waiting for "Slate".

The stuff on there are straight HALion which forms part of Cubase 5's included VST's. For that sample I just left them on as I was too lazy to rewire the drums to EZ, and then play with the levels. Will get there eventually, or mess with Slate when I eventually get it.

(The way I do it is to transcribe the entire song in Guitar Pro (including drums), and I then import the resulting midi file into Cubase. I then record what I can and VST the rest. But our needs differ as I quite enjoy building my own drum tracks)

I have a number of EZ sets. They're fine. I've found messing around that trying some EQ's and fx on the individual EZ drums in multi-channel can have some pretty good results.

In the end it comes down to individual preference in terms of the actual sounds of the drums so there's no real "better" IMO...only preference. From what I've heard, I just like the versatility of Slate, hence my reference to it.

I've also found that I like the snare and kick sound that HALion produces, which is strange as it's standard stuff. But for that sample I posted they seem to sound great with that guitar sound. So I wanna attempt to have different drums run off different VST's to see what the result will be (eg: Snare & Kick of HALion; Toms of EZ and Brass of Slate for instance).

doc-phil

+1000000 for Steven Slate Drums.

Forget both EZDrummer and Addictive. SSD is definitely the king of drum vst's. It is absolutely brilliant. I used EZDrummer for about 2 years and fiddled with Addictive drums but never owned it.

SSD has mix ready kits that you can slap into a recording without any EQ'ing/compression. I use those mostly. There are the Deluxe kits (dry with no post-processing) as well which I have only scratched the surface of.

Arno-West

Deefstes, I see you are in Randburg. PM me, lets hook up and I'll demo some drum software for you in my studio.

deefstes

Arno West wrote: Deefstes, I see you are in Randburg. PM me, lets hook up and I'll demo some drum software for you in my studio.

Thanks Arno, I might well do that.

Just not to keep everyone hanging, I suppose I should report back. Thanks for all the advice, in the end I decided to go with EZ Drummer. Here are the thoughts that influenced my choice:

1. I can not justify getting anything particularly high end. I am not a pro recording artist and it'll be some years before I would start thinking of forking out lots of dosh on pro software. So I was looking for something entry levelish.

2. The reason I dismissed Steven Slate is because it appeared to be aimed specifically at accurately modeling different drum sets and being particularly useful for pairing with an electronic drum set. Also, I watched a Youtube video of it at some point and saw none of the features I was looking for, but rather a pompous ass telling the world how awesome his software is and then finishing it on the most horrendous interpretation of "Fly Me To The Moon" that you have ever heard. It's probably an excellent package but the video simply didn't sell it to me.

3. I narrowed my options to EZ Drummer and Addictive Drums because they both offer a nice user interface for easily building up drum tracks from a library of MIDI grooves. I have only played drums at the most basic level so I needed something with which you can put together drum tracks without extensive drumming knowledge and experience. EZD and AD seemed to fit that bill perfectly.

4. So the reason I eventually decided on EZD over AD is because I seemed to get more endorsements of it than for AD and also because it is a bit cheaper than AD. The general consensus seemed to be that they're much of a muchness so I thought I might as well go with the cheaper option then.

So far it's working well for me. It's exactly the kind of interface that I was hoping for; definitely the no mess no fuss approach. I do have one gripe though. I was looking for something that I could use straight out of the box without having to buy all sorts of different expansions. The library of MIDI grooves that comes with EZD is a bit limited I think. It seems that you would have to buy an expansion or two in order to really get a good collection of MIDI grooves. I'm not sure if AD is any better in this respect as this is exactly where the demo versions are crippled.

At any rate, I have bought EZD now so it's no use now worrying about the number of MIDI grooves that comes with AD. I've scoured the interwebs and found some free downloadable grooves with which I've already expanded my library somewhat and I'll keep doing this (and slowly make my own) until I have a decent collection.

AlanRatcliffe

I drum, use an electronic kit and use EZD. Very happy with it. For a quick production especially, it makes throwing together a good sounding drum part quick and easy by dragging and dropping patterns. I also have Superior Drummer which I'll sometimes use for final mix (but not always), and even then, I'll still do all the tracking/programming of the drums with EZD.

Most GM drum patterns will work with EZD BTW - so you can go nuts... ?

The Nashville, Jazz and Vintage Rock kits cover 99% of what I do.

Arno-West

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I drum, use an electronic kit and use EZD. Very happy with it. For a quick production especially, it makes throwing together a good sounding drum part quick and easy by dragging and dropping patterns. I also have Superior Drummer which I'll sometimes use for final mix (but not always), and even then, I'll still do all the tracking/programming of the drums with EZD.

Most GM drum patterns will work with EZD BTW - so you can go nuts... ?

The Nashville, Jazz and Vintage Rock kits cover 99% of what I do.

Yes, Superior does tend to sit better in the mix than EZ, but ez is much more user-friendly. It took me 3 days to set-up a template for Superior with all the different comps and eq's.

doc-phil

deefstes wrote: 2. The reason I dismissed Steven Slate is because it appeared to be aimed specifically at accurately modeling different drum sets and being particularly useful for pairing with an electronic drum set. Also, I watched a Youtube video of it at some point and saw none of the features I was looking for, but rather a pompous ass telling the world how awesome his software is and then finishing it on the most horrendous interpretation of "Fly Me To The Moon" that you have ever heard. It's probably an excellent package but the video simply didn't sell it to me.

Sigh... in a year or two when you are completely sick of using one drum kit for every track you produce (if you just use stock EZD) you will realise the error of your ways ?

Steven Slate can get away with telling everyone how awesome his software is because it is that awesome!

For less than double the price you could have got over 100 kits in SSD.. instead you're stuck with one usable kit (if you eq/compress the hell out of it) in EZD pop/rock.

Look I'm just kidding, EZD is decent as your basic entry level drum software. But mark my words, you will get over it and it's limitations pretty soon! The thing I hate most about EZD is that 80% of amateur mixes on the internet use it, and you can hear it immediately.

AlanRatcliffe

doc-phil wrote: Sigh... in a year or two when you are completely sick of using one drum kit for every track you produce (if you just use stock EZD) you will realise the error of your ways ?

If you just use the stock drumkit, maybe. But then, how many years did we all use the Bob Cearmountain sample library and get away with it? Or samples of the gated snare from Bowie's Let's Dance?

Steven Slate can get away with telling everyone how awesome his software is because it is that awesome!

Different application altogether! Does SSD have a library of drum patterns that anyone can use to quickly throw together a drum track by auditioning and then dragging and dropping? That's where EZD is excellent. SSD is more of a replacement for Drumagog or a sound library for electronic kits than a tool to facilitate creating the drum parts.

For less than double the price you could have got over 100 kits in SSD..

Which doesn't help you one jot if you're not very good at either playing a kit or programming drum parts.

The thing I hate most about EZD is that 80% of amateur mixes on the internet use it, and you can hear it immediately.

It's not the tool, it's the person using it.

doc-phil

SSD does have it's own midi grooves section. Granted, it's not as big as EZD. However, you can map the midi in SSD however you like, I have mine mapped to general midi (same as EZD) which means that I have infinite midi drum loops at my disposal - just go on to ultimate-guitar.com, download some guitar pro files... export as midi and load directly onto your drum track. Viola!

There are two Steven Slate drum products - Steven Slate Drums which is the exact same type of application as EZD (but they do punt the fact that it is easily programmable with Roland V-drums). And then there is Steven Slate Trigger, which is what I think you are thinking about when you speak of SSD being a replacement for Drumagog.

But hey, I have been so thoroughly impressed with the product (as well as personal customer support from Steven Slate himself) that I have become a fanboy ?

deefstes

doc-phil wrote:...which means that I have infinite midi drum loops at my disposal - just go on to ultimate-guitar.com, download some guitar pro files... export as midi and load directly onto your drum track. Viola!

I'm not sure I understand. I don't have Guitar Pro so I'm not sure what these files look like? Are you saying that the Guitar Pro files contain drum information as well which you can then export to MIDI. I thought the stuff you get from ultimate-guitar.com deals only with tabs and guitar midi?

Oh, and where does the viola fit into all of this? ?

doc-phil

More often than not, whoever submits a GP file to ultimate-guitar also tabs out the drums in midi. I just export that midi track into my DAW and do a bit of editing to make it sound less machine-like.

There are free tab programs that read guitar pro files, one being Power Tab. I don't know when it was last updated, because last time I tried it it didn't import .gp files 100% correct. Still better than nothing.

I tab out all my drum parts in GP then export to midi. It's generally a lot easier than using the midi editor in Reaper.