Songwriters, where do you draw from for ideas?

deefstes · 2012-06-06T17:09:42+00:00

I seem to be a horrible songwriter lately, and by "lately" I mean ever since I grew up ? I used to be the most prolific songwriter in varsity and I think it...

Songwriters, where do you draw from for ideas?

deefstes

Nitebob wrote: Good examples here: Matt Bianco - Wap Bam boogie, Macarena...and the hit of the day...Dinosaur. Very catchy, but by no means a poetic masterpiece...also, more than half the afrikaans songs written these days

You've got that right.
"Generaal, generaal ek kom jou dogter haal. Ek weet dis radikaal maar sy's fenominaal"

Bob-Dubery

CostaFonix wrote: I think thats the way I'll be heading Pete, I have reached a point when I write music that I just sing any garbage simply to get the melody line and the vocal harmonies into the track..

Melody and lyrics do not always evolve simultaneously. Paul McCartney had the melody for "Yesterday" long before the lyrics. The Beatles used to refer to it as "Scrambled Egg" because that was how Macca began the nonsense lyrics he used whilst he was refining the tune.

When Paul simon recorded the Graceland album he had very few finished songs. In most cases the lyrics, and thus the vocals, were laid down some time after the original sessons.

How does all of this help Deefstes and other aspiring songwriters? Well, it means that you don't have to bust your chops getting everything worked out at the same time and you don't have to beat yourself up if it doesn't happen that way. Read enough interviews with songwriters and you will find out that songs start from all sorts of different points. Sometimes the melody comes first and the lyric later. Sometimes the other way around. Sometimes you realise you have THIS melody and THIS lyric written independently but they will work together. Songs may evolve from a single line of lyrics, a chorus that has no verses initially, a riff, a title *. They don't necessarily emerge fully formed and from a single burst of inspiration. For a while Yes "wrote" "songs" by laying down lots of short passages, riffs, whatever they had on tape and seeing what bits could be combined to form cohesive songs that they would then learn. Songs may take years of polishing before they are deemed finished and ready for recording.

* "Satisfaction" started off with just that well known riff. Keith didn't know what to do with it. He played it to Mick. Mick thought that if you built a song around that riff then "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" would be a good title. Then Mick wrote the lyrics to fit the title.

Bob-Dubery

I don't know why people are being so harsh on Afrikaans songs. It's not like there aren't plenty of banal English lyrics out there, yet nobody goes around making blanket statements about English-language songs. Back in the 80s I heard a lot of Afrikaans songs that I enjoyed (none of them, it must be said, were recorded by Bles Bridges). I'm not Afrikaans, but a good lyric is a good lyric and it seems to me to be the case that anything you can say in English you can say in Afrikaans. So writing in Afrikaans needn't cramp one's style - though Afrikaans songs probably won't make the charts in the USA.

deefstes

X-rated Bob wrote: I don't know why people are being so harsh on Afrikaans songs. It's not like there aren't plenty of banal English lyrics out there, yet nobody goes around making blanket statements about English-language songs. Back in the 80s I heard a lot of Afrikaans songs that I enjoyed (none of them, it must be said, were recorded by Bles Bridges). I'm not Afrikaans, but a good lyric is a good lyric and it seems to me to be the case that anything you can say in English you can say in Afrikaans. So writing in Afrikaans needn't cramp one's style - though Afrikaans songs probably won't make the charts in the USA.

Of course you're right and some of my favourite lyrics still come from Afrikaans songs. However, there appears to be a current trend for Afrikaans music to be particularly shallow and Nitebob's statement of "more than half the Afrikaans songs written these days" is perhaps not so much a blanket statement as it is hyperbole.

G-Man

I used to write a lot of poetry and stories when I was in high school. Then as I got older I realised that everything I was saying had been said better by somebody else and that it was an exercise in futility. I asked some one about how I was feeling and they said it was because I am jaded. I dunno though. I read what I've written and then go "nah" and chuck it in the bin.

vic

G-Man wrote: I used to write a lot of poetry and stories when I was in high school. Then as I got older I realised that everything I was saying had been said better by somebody else and that it was an exercise in futility. I asked some one about how I was feeling and they said it was because I am jaded. I dunno though. I read what I've written and then go "nah" and chuck it in the bin.

We all should have much more confidence in what we write....songwise I mean. Remember the 'song' Dah dah Dah ?......I rest my case. ?

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: I don't know why people are being so harsh on Afrikaans songs. It's not like there aren't plenty of banal English lyrics out there, yet nobody goes around making blanket statements about English-language songs. Back in the 80s I heard a lot of Afrikaans songs that I enjoyed (none of them, it must be said, were recorded by Bles Bridges). I'm not Afrikaans, but a good lyric is a good lyric and it seems to me to be the case that anything you can say in English you can say in Afrikaans. So writing in Afrikaans needn't cramp one's style - though Afrikaans songs probably won't make the charts in the USA.
Of course you're right and some of my favourite lyrics still come from Afrikaans songs. However, there appears to be a current trend for Afrikaans music to be particularly shallow and Nitebob's statement of "more than half the Afrikaans songs written these days" is perhaps not so much a blanket statement as it is hyperbole.

Well I don't listen to much that anybody in their right mind would call "popular" (at least not popular in SA) but the contemporary Afrikaans tunes that do leak through the cracks in the walls of my conciousness are not what I'd call inspiring. BUT it doesn't have to be that way. Part of what the Voelvry movement of the 80s was about was to "liberate" the language, to allow it to say things that it hadn't been allowed to say before, to have songs that rocked and were raucous and rebellious but were also written in Afrikaans.

I remember that Johannes Kerkorrel had a song that contained the immortal line "en 'n boer maak 'n plan".

Jayhell

I used to do the super emotional write-songs-about-your-feelings-stuff, but it's lame now, because I'm actually happy. Wrote a song called 'happy' and that was the end of that. Now I think of scenes. Desert scenes, Fight scenes, love scenes... any thing will do, imagine a little story about it and change it from prose to poetry. Sometimes the songs change themselves over time. I once wrote a song about a cowboy who needs to save a damsel in distress. I was reading "The Gunslinger" and watching CSI Miami. Horatio Cane once again saved the kidnapped kid and all was good. Then I thought what if he doesn't. Changed the perspective completely. So then the damsel in distress dies. Once the song was written, the story is lost but it seems to be a beautiful love song about doing anything for someone.

Try and challenge your mind with weird stuff, even if it sucks. Watch tonights episode of 7de laan and try write a song about it. Try write a song about something that only happens in a second, lighting a sigarette or jumping out of a window or something. Keep a sense of humor, remember songs like 'Dune Buggy' or anything by the Presidents of the USA. The key is to amuse yourself and others will follow. Writing good lyrics takes just as much practice as learning to play guitar, unfortunately we never spend a tenth of the time on lyrics that we spend just jamming a guitar.

deefstes

Jayhell wrote: I used to do the super emotional write-songs-about-your-feelings-stuff, but it's lame now, because I'm actually happy. Wrote a song called 'happy' and that was the end of that. Now I think of scenes. Desert scenes, Fight scenes, love scenes... any thing will do, imagine a little story about it and change it from prose to poetry. Sometimes the songs change themselves over time. I once wrote a song about a cowboy who needs to save a damsel in distress. I was reading "The Gunslinger" and watching CSI Miami. Horatio Cane once again saved the kidnapped kid and all was good. Then I thought what if he doesn't. Changed the perspective completely. So then the damsel in distress dies. Once the song was written, the story is lost but it seems to be a beautiful love song about doing anything for someone.

Try and challenge your mind with weird stuff, even if it sucks. Watch tonights episode of 7de laan and try write a song about it. Try write a song about something that only happens in a second, lighting a sigarette or jumping out of a window or something. Keep a sense of humor, remember songs like 'Dune Buggy' or anything by the Presidents of the USA. The key is to amuse yourself and others will follow. Writing good lyrics takes just as much practice as learning to play guitar, unfortunately we never spend a tenth of the time on lyrics that we spend just jamming a guitar.

Very good post. Some good ideas in there. Thanks.

Nitebob

X-rated Bob wrote: I don't know why people are being so harsh on Afrikaans songs. It's not like there aren't plenty of banal English lyrics out there, yet nobody goes around making blanket statements about English-language songs. Back in the 80s I heard a lot of Afrikaans songs that I enjoyed (none of them, it must be said, were recorded by Bles Bridges). I'm not Afrikaans, but a good lyric is a good lyric and it seems to me to be the case that anything you can say in English you can say in Afrikaans. So writing in Afrikaans needn't cramp one's style - though Afrikaans songs probably won't make the charts in the USA.

XRBob, apologies, it wasn't meant as a blanket statement.

I am afrikaans and what I've written that is reasonable, I've written in Afrikaans. I am a huge fan of Johan Vorsters writing...but I mean really...Kaptein span die seile??? There has to be better lyrics to put to that tune...

vic

Nitebob wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: I don't know why people are being so harsh on Afrikaans songs. It's not like there aren't plenty of banal English lyrics out there, yet nobody goes around making blanket statements about English-language songs. Back in the 80s I heard a lot of Afrikaans songs that I enjoyed (none of them, it must be said, were recorded by Bles Bridges). I'm not Afrikaans, but a good lyric is a good lyric and it seems to me to be the case that anything you can say in English you can say in Afrikaans. So writing in Afrikaans needn't cramp one's style - though Afrikaans songs probably won't make the charts in the USA.
XRBob, apologies, it wasn't meant as a blanket statement.

I am afrikaans and what I've written that is reasonable, I've written in Afrikaans. I am a huge fan of Johan Vorsters writing...but I mean really...Kaptein span die seile??? There has to be better lyrics to put to that tune...

There are now plenty Afrikaans songs' lyrics being translated into French (Afrifrans) and Spanish (Afrispaans) which by account are very well received in the respective countries.

I tend to disagree with Nitebob. "Kaptein" is very original, both musically and lyrics-wise.....especially the exclamation part ..."Kaptein span die seile !!"......thus the enormous hit that it was. Even English speakers were yelling out the exclamation section....just for fun.... ? when the song first came out. And Mr Darren says it's actually based on a personal experience ?