Active vs passive, pros and cons.

Hammeron · 2012-05-31T09:17:38+00:00

All the guitars I have had have had passive pups, except for the Rock bass which was active. What is your esteemed opinion regarding the pros and cons of the...

Active vs passive, pros and cons.

AlanRatcliffe

I've always appreciated the benefits for Bass (although even there, they are not for me), but have yet to find an active I like on guitar. Having said that, one or two of the Blackout sets in the Seymour vid I posted yesterday sound like they might be interesting.

MikeM

The blackout is very similar to the jazz set, just run through the SD preamp.

LooneyAtTheGate

I also prefer passives, better for response and dynamics, pinch harmonics and everything else that gives playing a 'personal' feel.
You can get your power with the amp and effects.

For bass in a heavy band situation actives are very necessary to cut through the mix, from my experience. But for bass solos and classic rock I prefer passive bass.

BMU

My two main recording guitars have DiMarzio PAFs in the one and EMG707s in the other.

I prefer the actives. I find them easier to bed in a mix, less fizz.

I also love the super tight modern low B thump, think Nevermore/Loomis. You can get it with passives too of course, I just get a little extra satisfaction with actives. That's after turning the amp gain DOWN, they're a little too hot if you ask me. I'd like a slightly lower gain EMG707, that would be cool.

(Loomis is a good argument for why actives can't possibly sound -so very bad- as people carry on about. Not people here. Other people)

By the way a lot of high gain players hate actives, like CAB says.

I also think they have a nicer lead tone. High notes maintain a very singing, melodic quality whereas actives scream more. Question of taste but I prefer the former.

If you have one of those types, there's no reason to switch to the other except to satisfy curiosity. Agree passives are probably more versatile, but clearly both types can do the job. All Metallica cleans are EMGs after all.

LooneyAtTheGate

Yes Loomis rocks! ? He definitely epitomises a good active pup sound. And the Metallica cleans are legendary.
I wouldn't mind having a 7 string with good actives in one day...

At the moment i like passives. Off right now to jam with a rather loud drummer, will be bringing with 2 guitars, one with actives, one with passives, to see how they cope in the mix.

Clint-Green

BMU wrote: My two main recording guitars have DiMarzio PAFs in the one and EMG707s in the other.

I prefer the actives. I find them easier to bed in a mix, less fizz.

I also love the super tight modern low B thump, think Nevermore/Loomis. You can get it with passives too of course, I just get a little extra satisfaction with actives. That's after turning the amp gain DOWN, they're a little too hot if you ask me. I'd like a slightly lower gain EMG707, that would be cool.

(Loomis is a good argument for why actives can't possibly sound -so very bad- as people carry on about. Not people here. Other people)

By the way a lot of high gain players hate actives, like CAB says.

I also think they have a nicer lead tone. High notes maintain a very singing, melodic quality whereas actives scream more. Question of taste but I prefer the former.

If you have one of those types, there's no reason to switch to the other except to satisfy curiosity. Agree passives are probably more versatile, but clearly both types can do the job. All Metallica cleans are EMGs after all.

+ 100 on Loomis, I absolutely love his tone and I think that if you're playing high-gain, downtuned stuff, actives are awesome for keeping things from sounding muddy. Don't be deceived by Metallica's clean tones though, enough chorus can give an otherwise lifeless pickup a passable clean tone (One, Sanitarium, Call Of The Kutulu). I know for a fact that for albums from at least The Black Album onwards they haven't shied away from using Strats, Les Pauls and even hollowbodied Jazz guitars for their clean tones in studio. Kirk even hauls out a strat every time they play The Unforgiven live ?

LooneyAtTheGate

That's true about chorus, probably the most over-abused of all effects, especially in the 1980s.

AlanRatcliffe

Effects are the spice, not the meal... Should be used to enhance something already good, rather than fix problems (with the possible exception of compressors).

What was it Zappa said? "Try get the best sound possible before you flange the piss out of it". Same applies - just substitute "chorus" for "flange".

ZarK

There are so many factors to consider... I've had the EMG 81/81 combo sound terrible to my ears in the alder-bodied ESP KH-2 while the 60/81 combo in my ESP Truckster sounded warm and full with excellent cleans as well... Very warm in tone but I suspect that has more to do with the guitar's construction and tonewoods than anything else. In another guitar I have EMG SA's and a 85. In this instrument they produce tones very similar to my US Strat but again, I suspect this has much to do with the guitar's tonewoods... It's all about pairing the pups with the guitar + your amp to create the tone you're after.

You can easily play the heaviest of metal with medium output humbuckers and a decent high gain amp setup. Similarly this can be achieved with high output active EMG's or similar pups combined with a lower gain amp or high gain amp at lower gain settings. I almost never dialled the gain on my Spider Valve and Mesa Dual Rectifier past 12 o'clock to get the heaviest tones from them when using my EMG equipped guitars.

Generally I prefer high gain active EMG's in a mahogany bodied guitar and a warmer sounding amp. To just say a pup is sterile sounding isn't enough to dismiss it. For example the same 'sterile' pup would probably breath life into a very dark sounding instrument where more conventionally voiced pups would just muddy up the tone. Try the same pup in different guitars and amp set-ups and you just may be surprised at how fantastic a pup can sound that previously didn't impress. It boils down to personal taste in the end. The one is not better sounding than the other. They definitely have different tonal characteristics that can either be enhanced or degraded by the natural tone of the instrument even before the signal gets to the amp...

If I had only one guitar, it would be fitted with Dimarzio medium-high output pups and a 5 position switch. You can get a massive variety of usable tones from such a setup, from blues all the way to metal. If I was into metal more than anything else, I'd be very tempted by the EMG 81/60 combo. They can be found being used on countless metal albums -and with good reason...

I also whole-heartedly agree that the natural tone of the instrument should be preserved and matched with the right amp before the adding of fx is even considered...

If you already have passive guitars and you're into metal as I know you are, you must get your hands on a mahogany bodied axe with EMG 81/60 combo (or similar) and live with it for a year or two. You already have passive axes which can presumably offer more versatility, but for dedicated metal mayhem you can't go wrong with active EMG's. (In the right axe; with the right amp...)

BMU

I ❤ mahogany too. Both the axes I mentioned are mahogany. I have actives in alder too - Loomis's sig in fact- that works too no problem, sounds good, but I lurve that mahogany sweetness.

For cleans admittedly I'd probably reach for the UV - passives, 5 way switch on an HSH guitar, posititons 2 and 4 have a transparent nearly acoustic sound. The Sisters tone on passion & warfare, verry nice.

VellaJ

Ok, although I stand by my first post, there is one thing I didn't mention, and I haven't noticed anyone state it explicitly. I think the sound quality of actives depends, ultimately, on the price of the guitar...

For example, I tried the Ibanez ART120 with actives, didn't like them much at all. They were fairly good for the heavy distortion stuff, but very "thunky" when on the clean channel. My RGA32 (moving up the price range) has much nicer pickups. Awesome for distortion, with bassy but decent enough cleans.

I haven't had any experience with ESPs, but I would imagine their actives are much better than what I could get on my budget...

Hammeron

I remember someone saying that he could switch from active to passive on his bass. I suppose it was equiped with both which he could choose to select?

AlanRatcliffe

Hammeron wrote: I remember someone saying that he could switch from active to passive on his bass. I suppose it was equiped with both which he could choose to select?

That only works with passive pickups mated with a seperate active tone or circuit - you can bypass the tone and go passive. With active pickups, the preamp is part of the design of the pickup itself and they don't work without it.

majestikc

Active Pups sound like ass, get some Seymour Duncans and be done with it, the Dimarzio D-Activator I got (which is passive trying to be like active) sounds really crap along with every other DiMarzio I've heard/tried. Everybody from Slash to Slipknot to Dimmu Borgir to Avenged Sevenfold and Arch Enemy and Yngwie Malmsteen use Seymour Duncans.

Most of the guitar "sound" is the amp anyway, plug an amazing guitar into a crappy amp and it will sound bad, plug a crappy guitar into an amazing sounding amp and you're going to still have something sounding pretty good.

BMU

majestikc wrote: Active Pups sound like ass, get some Seymour Duncans and be done with it, the Dimarzio D-Activator I got (which is passive trying to be like active) sounds really crap along with every other DiMarzio I've heard/tried. Everybody from Slash to Slipknot to Dimmu Borgir to Avenged Sevenfold and Arch Enemy and Yngwie Malmsteen use Seymour Duncans.

Most of the guitar "sound" is the amp anyway, plug an amazing guitar into a crappy amp and it will sound bad, plug a crappy guitar into an amazing sounding amp and you're going to still have something sounding pretty good.

So let's see, all EMGs and all Dimarzio sound like ass and only SDs are used by anyone important. I'm so glad you cleared that up for us. ?

MikeM

Lol I LOVE pickup "debates"

AlanRatcliffe

majestikc wrote: sounds really crap along with every other DiMarzio I've heard/tried.

You can't make a blanket statement like that and be right. Blind brand loyalty or hate will turn round and bite you in the ass every time. ? Every major manufacturer has models which are good, some bad and some indifferent. Also every pickup will sound different depending on what you drop them into.

DiMarzio has one of the best and widest ranges and, more importantly, are one of the industry's real innovators.

Strangely enough, guess which is the only pickup manufacturer from whom I've never found a pickup I really liked? Still, even I have to say they have some good models, just nothing that nailed precisely what I was looking for.

Everybody from Slash to Slipknot to Dimmu Borgir to Avenged Sevenfold and Arch Enemy and Yngwie Malmsteen use Seymour Duncans.

What about Vai, Satriani, Morse, Pettrucci, Gilbert, Bumblefoot, Li, Johnson, Timmons, John 5, etc. Anyway, endorsements are a worthless gauge of quality or suitability - the only ones you can really rely on are unpaid, unsolicited one where no free product is involved - like Marshall amps.

Most of the guitar "sound" is the amp anyway

I think you'll find that most of the guitar's sound is the strings - take 'em off and see how much tone you get. ?

majestikc

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
majestikc wrote: sounds really crap along with every other DiMarzio I've heard/tried.
You can't make a blanket statement like that and be right. Blind brand loyalty or hate will turn round and bite you in the ass every time. ? Every major manufacturer has models which are good, some bad and some indifferent. Also every pickup will sound different depending on what you drop them into.

DiMarzio has one of the best and widest ranges and, more importantly, are one of the industry's real innovators.

Strangely enough, guess which is the only pickup manufacturer from whom I've never found a pickup I really liked? Still, even I have to say they have some good models, just nothing that nailed precisely what I was looking for.

Everybody from Slash to Slipknot to Dimmu Borgir to Avenged Sevenfold and Arch Enemy and Yngwie Malmsteen use Seymour Duncans.
What about Vai, Satriani, Morse, Pettrucci, Gilbert, Bumblefoot, Li, Johnson, Timmons, John 5, etc. Anyway, endorsements are a worthless gauge of quality or suitability - the only ones you can really rely on are unpaid, unsolicited one where no free product is involved - like Marshall amps.

Most of the guitar "sound" is the amp anyway
I think you'll find that most of the guitar's sound is the strings - take 'em off and see how much tone you get. ?

In which case all of the electric guitars sound is in the wall plug.........in which case you need a R2500 virtual dynamics power 3 power cable

It's not really a blanket statement, I did say "I've heard/tried", maybe there are some good ones, but so far, consistently, it's been the same thing with DiMarzio for me (for hard rock/metal I should probably add)

The main point with listing some "heavy" artists, is that you don't necessarily NEED active pups for metal.

Obviously the only way to find what you like is to try a few Seymour Duncans, try a few EMG's and try a few DiMarzio's (it's going to be an expensive, time consuming test though)

=

ZarK

majestikc wrote: Active Pups sound like ass, get some Seymour Duncans and be done with it, the Dimarzio D-Activator I got (which is passive trying to be like active) sounds really crap along with every other DiMarzio I've heard/tried. Everybody from Slash to Slipknot to Dimmu Borgir to Avenged Sevenfold and Arch Enemy and Yngwie Malmsteen use Seymour Duncans.

Eish wena... :?

majestikc wrote: Most of the guitar "sound" is the amp anyway, plug an amazing guitar into a crappy amp and it will sound bad, plug a crappy guitar into an amazing sounding amp and you're going to still have something sounding pretty good.

Nonsense...

majestikc

It's not nonsense, I should have made it clear that I'm talking from a high gain metal/hard rock point of view here, not jazz or blues or any of that, obviously when you stalk talking clean jazz tones then it's the complete opposite.