Nitebob
I do backing vocals in a P&W band. Our W/leader plays electric guitar. Rythm (I suppose). He basically only uses the e-shape barre chord up and down the neck. Well I should call it the e-minor shape barrre chord, as he never plays the fourth string from the top to bottom e. So he basically never frets with his middle finger, index and ring finger only. Only the top three strings played, unless he is playing some sort of fill.... So having watched him, he never plays minors.
Can it be this easy? And if it's the same shape up and down the neck, why not just use open e tuning and play the top 3 strings, instead of e shape barre's? This is upsetting to me...to me playing guitar should entail much more, am I complexing things?
Squonk
Paul Baloche has an instructional video on acoustic guitar playing that uses this method. It's basically a simple yet effective way of playing rhythm while leading a worship team, or any other team.
If you are in this situation, leading in the front of the church, with all the elders and pastors looking at you, and having to try and juggle playing, singing, leading, waiting on God etc, The last thing you need is complex chords to further complicate the thing. A good open tuning would be good, but would be too much work if you are not at least an intermediate guitarist.
Nitebob
Okay, that makes perfect sense...but if your using the same shape up and down the neck, wouldn't the open tuning be less complex?
He is playing electric by the way, so it's pulled off much easier. Any idea where I can get a copy of that video?
rikus
Sounds like he is just sticking to power chords... when playing with overdrive/distortion playing the full chord including the third (the middle finger on an e shape bar chord) will just muddy the sound, so people tend to stick to playing power chords (the 1 and the 5 of the chord). It works great for creating chunky rhythm for the song...
As to your question of whether it should entail more... depends on the band setup. If he's the only guitar player, then playing power chords are a safe bet... if there is more than one guitar player then it would be possible for him to play different voicings/chord shapes in another register if he wants to keep playing rhythm, but less is typically more in a worship scenario... the church congregation doesn't typically enjoy their faces being melted off the whole time...
edit: missed the part about the open tuning, but I think Squonk's on the money...
Bob-Dubery
Simple techniques are always valid. You just shouldn't think they're ALL of guitar playing.
What's being described here will probably work in an ensemble but not solo.
As I read your post, when you say "top" you mean the physically highest strings, the thickest strings. Is that right? If so then all this guy is doing is playing power chords.
Most open tunings give you a minor or a major chord shape on the neck, and so you will run into problems just moving a barre around the neck of an open tuned guitar.
When you're playing in an ensemble it often pays to underplay, to keep it real simple. That helps to keep the different instruments and the different parts from treading on each other's toes.
Check on youtube for clips of the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain. Notice how the individual parts are simple but the overall effect is complete and effective. Very important in that band because most of them are playing in the same sonic space, it could so easily be a mush, but it isn't.
Jack-Flash-Jr
Squonk wrote:
Paul Baloche has an instructional video on acoustic guitar playing that uses this method. It's basically a simple yet effective way of playing rhythm while leading a worship team, or any other team.
If you are in this situation, leading in the front of the church, with all the elders and pastors looking at you, and having to try and juggle playing, singing, leading, waiting on God etc, The last thing you need is complex chords to further complicate the thing. A good open tuning would be good, but would be too much work if you are not at least an intermediate guitarist.
:roflmao:
Nitebob
Yes XRB, He is playing the EAD chords in normal tuning. But using the e-shape barre chord. My question though is how is using the very same shape (not variations thereof) up and down the neck different to playing open e and just barring up and down the neck?
@Rikus, he's the only one playing electric, there were two other acoustic players in the band last night.
Bob-Dubery
Nitebob wrote:
Yes XRB, He is playing the EAD chords in normal tuning. But using the e-shape barre chord. My question though is how is using the very same shape (not variations thereof) up and down the neck different to playing open e and just barring up and down the neck?
OK.... say he plays that shape in the 3rd position. The notes (starting on the thickest string) are
G D G.
That's a root, a fifth and an octave above the root. You can play that over G major or a G minor because it doesn't have a third note and so won't clash with either chord. G major will have the notes G B D. G minor will have the flat 3rd and so will be made up of G Bb D.
Now, if you play in open E the guitar is tuned E B E G# B E. That gives you an E MAJOR chord if you just strum the strings. If you then make a barre and move it up and down you will get a major chord at each position. But if a minor chord is required you have a problem.
Nitebob
That's my point. If you're playing e shape barre, the fourth string from the top determines the minor, right?
But if he is only playing the same shape up and down the neck, he isn't playing any minors....and I know the songs had minors, because I had the sheets i front of me. It seems he doesn't play minors at all...
Bob-Dubery
Nitebob wrote:
That's my point. If you're playing e shape barre, the fourth string from the top determines the minor, right?
But if he is only playing the same shape up and down the neck, he isn't playing any minors....and I know the songs had minors, because I had the sheets i front of me. It seems he doesn't play minors at all...
But he's not playing majors either.
Look again at my explanation
1) A G
major has G B and D (B is the third)
2) A G
minor has the notes G Bb and D (the flat 3rd makes it a minor chord)
3) He is playing the notes G D and G. There is no third. What he is playing is neither minor nor major but will not clash with either.
ezietsman
Yeah, XRB is correct. The guy was playing the 1st and 5th notes only, hence its not major or minor and will fit in with either (the 3rd determines whether its major or minor). Playing it up and down the neck obviously changes the chord. Its completely valid to play like this, it may not be very exciting but nothing wrong with it.
petermoffat
As someone new to playing electric guitar, with a bunch of mates that can 'play' and always trying to see what people do, I think I can (perhaps naively) say, that yes, it is that easy, or more accurately, it can be that easy.
Power chords are an extremely easy, once you (I) get over the cramp they induce, way to play, and with a little experience you can play many songs.
This is something I started with a few weeks ago, after being super frustrated with my electric guitar playing. I'm not fast enough to pick out strings in time, my open chords sound super shit on electric, and I have no idea how to improvise a riff. Basically, I sound terrible and so never played the electric (to be fair, my acoustic playing was self taught, from JustinGuitar.com beginner lessons, and I sort of stopped once I could play some tunes and new the open chords).
Then a week or two ago, I saw a video of Green day playing Good Riddance on an electric. I'd only ever heard it on acoustic. I tried the open chords, and they sounded muddy and rang out forever. I have an idea what power chords are (root and fifth on the 6th and 5th string, as explained by Justin), so went looking for a quick reference and found the diagrams, as I haven't done much theory, and don't know the notes on the fretboard. It took me all of a minute to play the song, and make it sound infinitely better than I could before.
Having said that, I'm under no pretence that I'm anything other than a beginner player ☹
One thing I wasn't expecting was to learn how things come together a little bit, like how knowing the notes means you can know where to play the chords and minimize jumps between them.
Something I've always thought (and don't shoot me for this please ?) is that guitar players aren't all musical geniuses. Obviously there are many guys that understand the music, and there playing speaks for itself, but every one of those, there must be at least a few more kids playing at their schools battle of the bands, or in their garage with mates, that has never heard of a scale or whatever, and play straight off tabs from the internet. It's perhaps a stretch to call these guys 'musicians', but they can belt out a tune well enough to get some heads bobbing, and I bet they've never had a lesson in their lives.
I think playing the guitar can be as easy or as difficult as you want it to be. Sometimes you get in a rut and don't learn anything new for ages, and sometimes you figure things out, or learn why you need to figure something out, and you practice it, and in a few days or a few months you've learned a new technique.
Not everyone wants to be a Jimmy Page, or a Slash or whoever you look up to, and not that I don't admire those guys, and a bunch of others, but I know that it will take me a lifetime to maybe get to play a fraction as well, and I'm happy for it to be a lifetime pursuit. For me there's an enjoyment in playing, I like to make some music, sing along when no ones around, and have a bit of a jol.
Jack-Flash-Jr
What it boils down to is how does he sound?
And how is he going to sound to the congregation when he's playing the same thing months from now?
Nitebob
petermoffat wrote:
As someone new to playing electric guitar, with a bunch of mates that can 'play' and always trying to see what people do, I think I can (perhaps naively) say, that yes, it is that easy, or more accurately, it can be that easy.
Power chords are an extremely easy, once you (I) get over the cramp they induce, way to play, and with a little experience you can play many songs.
This is something I started with a few weeks ago, after being super frustrated with my electric guitar playing. I'm not fast enough to pick out strings in time, my open chords sound super shit on electric, and I have no idea how to improvise a riff. Basically, I sound terrible and so never played the electric (to be fair, my acoustic playing was self taught, from JustinGuitar.com beginner lessons, and I sort of stopped once I could play some tunes and new the open chords).
Then a week or two ago, I saw a video of Green day playing Good Riddance on an electric. I'd only ever heard it on acoustic. I tried the open chords, and they sounded muddy and rang out forever. I have an idea what power chords are (root and fifth on the 6th and 5th string, as explained by Justin), so went looking for a quick reference and found the diagrams, as I haven't done much theory, and don't know the notes on the fretboard. It took me all of a minute to play the song, and make it sound infinitely better than I could before.
Having said that, I'm under no pretence that I'm anything other than a beginner player ☹
One thing I wasn't expecting was to learn how things come together a little bit, like how knowing the notes means you can know where to play the chords and minimize jumps between them.
Something I've always thought (and don't shoot me for this please ?) is that guitar players aren't all musical geniuses. Obviously there are many guys that understand the music, and there playing speaks for itself, but every one of those, there must be at least a few more kids playing at their schools battle of the bands, or in their garage with mates, that has never heard of a scale or whatever, and play straight off tabs from the internet. It's perhaps a stretch to call these guys 'musicians', but they can belt out a tune well enough to get some heads bobbing, and I bet they've never had a lesson in their lives.
I think playing the guitar can be as easy or as difficult as you want it to be. Sometimes you get in a rut and don't learn anything new for ages, and sometimes you figure things out, or learn why you need to figure something out, and you practice it, and in a few days or a few months you've learned a new technique.
Not everyone wants to be a Jimmy Page, or a Slash or whoever you look up to, and not that I don't admire those guys, and a bunch of others, but I know that it will take me a lifetime to maybe get to play a fraction as well, and I'm happy for it to be a lifetime pursuit. For me there's an enjoyment in playing, I like to make some music, sing along when no ones around, and have a bit of a jol.
:applause:
singemonkey
Nitebob wrote:
...am I complexing things?
I think allowing people to create music very simply embiggens us all.
Nitebob
Embiggens.... ??? I should've become a drummer
Okay, get it....good! ?
Bob-Dubery
Nitebob wrote:
That's my point. If you're playing e shape barre, the fourth string from the top determines the minor, right?
The FIRST string on a regularly tuned guitar is the high E, the thinnest plain string. The bigass wound string at the other extremity is the SIXTH string.
It's kind of arbitrary, but it's the agreed usage. It's important because there is less miscommunication if we all use the same convention. If you tell the guitar tech that you think the intonation on the second string is out, it's a good idea if you both understand "second" in the same way ?
el-guapo
What's wrong? It's a perfectly cromulent word.
?
singemonkey
el guapo wrote:
What's wrong? It's a perfectly cromulent word.
?
You win 20 internetz.
