deefstes wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Everyone has the Joe Slovo Thing wrong. Read from bottom to top and you realise that that is an address in response to being asked "Where are you?". #3 Joe Slovo Road, Klerksdorp (or Joe Slovo 3 if you are Afrikaans speaking). That is the address of Autoworld in Klerksdorp, which ties in with the email address for Braam.
Exactly
Kalcium wrote:
I read the posts of the 3 people involved on the MyLP forum and from what I can gather it seems like Braam was just a guy trying to make a quick buck. It looks like Braam was gonna buy the guitar for lets say $20k, then sell the guitar to the US buyer (Clay) for $45k. The US guys only spoke to Braam and never with the owner himself. In the emails between MG and the US buyers friend (Clay's friend) MG clearly indicates he doesn't mind going to get the guitar for them because he is going there already to look at a 60 Burst and a strat etc. This was before the US guy gave out a number or address. The US guys think the 60 burst he mentioned here was a different guitar (A plaintop which MG did know about and had tried to sell to the US guys) but I think it was actually the same 60 burst since MG had the contact of the orginal owner, not Braam. The US guys knew only Braams contact details and if Braam was a middle man as I assumed him to be, he wouldn't be keen on giving the owners details to MG since he would lose out of the profit he was going to make, so I think MG got the owners details of his own means and was on his way to check it out for himself before the US guys asked him to check out 'a guitar'.
I think the US guys assume the 60 burst he was going to see was the plaintop burst when actually it was the flametop burst in question and so the US guys assume he only knew about the flametop burst from them and stole their deal, when in fact he actually knew of the flametop burst and was already on his way to see it, hence the "im already going to JHB to see a 60 burst so its not an issue to go check out the guitar that is yet to be specified for you guys"
Just 1 possible interpretation which would mean a misunderstanding and both parties assuming they are correct
That is how I also interpreted the whole thing. At first I was very unimpressed with Mark Grace's despicable behaviour but, as I read through all of the messages (and yes, I spent the better half of last night doing that),
I started seeing that the picture was very different from what Fred (the original would be buyer) painted.
It would seem that Mark Grace knew about this guitar before Clay had even contacted him to act as local agent. They hadn't even put him in touch with Braam yet by the time he had already sealed the deal, not with Braam but with the real owner of the guitar.
The way I see it, Mark bought this guitar fair and square and got himself a magnificent deal by the looks of it. The Fred character has sour grapes and now he's embarking on a smear campaign. But come on! The fact that he knew of the guitar's existence does not give him first dibs on the deal. He didn't even know who the owner of the guitar was (it wasn't Braam and it sure as heck wasn't Joe Slovo!) Naah, I'm not convinced that he deserved to get this guitar so all's well that ends well and he should suck it up and get on with his life.
Of course I'd recant all of the above if the assumption is false that Mark knew of the guitar prior to being told of it by Clay. It does bother me though that it would seem as if all the parties involved here (Mark, Clay and his US friend) appear to be very economical with the truth. They are posting private e-mail exchanges on open fora that paint a certain picture but it would seem they're leaving out other exchanges that paints a different picture. But these selective truths seem to have started in the negotiations for the sale already. Braam referring to a co-owner of the guitar when it seems that he wasn't even a co-owner himself. Clay strategically misleading Mark as to the type of guitar in question. etc.
But really, if I was in Mark's shoes, and if the above is indeed accurate, I would have reacted with much vigour to the very first allegation that was leveled, with something along these lines:
"WHOAAAAH buddy, those are some serious allegations when that is nothing like what happened. I knew of this guitar before you guys had even contacted me, that's why I was flying up to JHB in the first place. Braam is not the owner of the guitar, Joe Slovo is his address, not his silent partner, and you were being misled by Braam or by your US friend or by both. The guitar wasn't Braam's to sell and whatever agreement you had with him is irrelevant. And only after I had bought the guitar that I went up to JHB for in the first place, did Clay eventually give me the contact details for Braam."
Shall I just say, I get the impression Mark is innocent here but I do get the impression he could have killed this whole storm before it even started by splashing the whole truth all over post 2 in that thread.
