LP-Types?

FRALIN-FAN · 2012-05-03T08:30:31+00:00

SO I have a VOX SCC-55, and a USA Strat and I am now looking for a Humbucker git in the LP mould. HEard too many stories about Gibson quality and I am wonde...

LP-Types?

ezietsman

shaunf wrote:
singemonkey wrote: Well man, your store must stock a whole different batch to mine. The wall of Gibsons I checked out, all besides the custom shop reissues had poorly finished fretboards rife with tool-marks (and that's not an off-the-cuff exaggeration). The 335s and 339s had this weird thing where the neck end of the pickguards were screwed down so tight they actually warped at that end.

I'm not saying these were bad guitars, because I didn't play them. I'm sure most if not all were great players. But signs of poor quality control were very evident. Another forum member was able to show the shop guy that on an LP he played, every single knob had been arbitrarily put on so they indicated different settings when up full (yes I know, but it's further evidence of the throw-them-together-and-toss-them-in-a-box approach to QC in Nashville).

Only the R7 Goldtop and the R0 flame top (respectively something like R35K and R50K on the sticker) looked like they'd been finished off with the attention to detail you expect in a high end guitar. I'm going to the store today, so I'll check again whether my eyes were deceiving me, or whether it was just a bad batch.

I'd say if you go for Gibson, and you can't afford a custom shop model, it's preferable to go for one made before 2000 when these QC issues were not so common.
It's quite possible it's a different batch. They got their stock in last Sept/Oct if I remember correctly. I know they've got another big order on the way soon, so it will be interesting to see what the new lot look like when they arrive.

By the way, are you serious about the knob issue? I take the knobs off my guitars every time I want to give them a good clean or polish. Perhaps someone from the shop did the same and put them back in a hurry ?

That forum member was me. I played one of their Goldtop LP standards (2011 I guess). The two salesmen were telling me about the 26 step QC system Gibson has and how great it is. They were utterly surprised when I showed them the randomized knobs. The guitar in question played and sounded great otherwise. The knobs was also the only real issue I saw with that one (Well that and it weighs like 5 grams). I think Singemonkey is correct in suggesting that these guitars are probably good players but for the money they go for new, any little flaw becomes very noticable. See if you can find tooling marks or paint on frets or skew knobs on a >R20k PRS. I'll bet you won't.

Warren

I've stayed out of this whole ongoing Gibson quality spat because I never had any info on the matter (first-hand info) until recently.

When I bought my new amp last month, I was at MM in Woodmead and testing various amps in their sound room full of Gibson guitars. I plugged in a Tobacco Burst LP, just for kicks, and I loved the tone. However, on close inspection I wasn't that impressed with the way the guitar had been finished. The fretboard binding was uneven and skew after the body join, there was a lot of "bleed" (or whatever you call it) of paint around the binding on the rest of the body etc. The guitar still sounded great, but it would certainly put me off spending R20k on that guitar. I checked out the other LP traditional and was not satisfied with that one either. My R15k Strat, from the same store, is flawless by comparison.

Similar to what Singed was saying, the higher end stuff seemed better: the LP customs were really great, but cost considerably more as well. Aub's LP Custom is the nicest LP I've ever played, and overall one of the nicest guitars I've played in general, so there's no doubt Gibson do still make good stuff, you just need to hunt around a bit and find yourself a good one. In any case for your R15k I think you'll struggle to get a new Gibson LP, unless you go for a Studio model.

The Tokais at TOMS, on the other hand, are consistently gorgeously built and finished, and they cost a lot less. Some of those tops alone are just beautiful. That said, R15k is still a lot of money, and you need to make a call about whether you want to spend that sort of money on a straight up copy of a Gibson. I personally quite like the idea of an LP style guitar that's not a direct Gibson LP copy, but there's no arguing that the Tokais are very well made and sound awesome. Only you can make that choice for yourself.

TL;DR - don't write off Gibsons just because of the stories others have told. Go and check them out for yourself, particularly keep an eye on the second-hand market. A good used Gibson LP around that price range would be first prize IMO. If you're looking new, the Tokais are very hard to beat. Non SE PRS guitars are probably out of that price range.

AlanRatcliffe

OK. Enough Gibson-bashing for now - T & G Fans, please just accept that you won't change each other's minds and move on with your lives. Gibson QC has improved, but it's still not perfect judging from the examples I have seen recently (but no brand is). And the Gibson LPs are still a better investment in the long run.

However, with that budget and an LP-Style guitar in mind, I have to second the earlier recommendation of the Tokai LS160. Classic 50's style LP, flawless quality and well-priced. Won't hold it's value as well as a Gibson Standard (and yes, that might change...).

The Ibanez Artist is a worthy contender, but there have been a lot of different models in recent years and not all would appeal to the same players. The AR3000 Prestige specifically is a bit OTT for me with the gold and that top.

Another double-cut to look at is the Yamaha SG2000 (if you can find one).

ActionArnie

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Another double-cut to look at is the Yamaha SG2000 (if you can find one).

Yes! These look amazing! Not cheap though when I looked before.

shaunf

ShreddySmurf wrote: there was a lot of "bleed" (or whatever you call it) of paint around the binding on the rest of the body etc.

Just a bit of info on this point. That "bleed" you see on the binding is the result of the red aniline dye used in the pore filler on the mahogany parts "migrating" through the nitro over time. This has been an "issue" since the 50's on ALL the red mahogany backed guitars with binding. Even my '59 custom shop reissue has this bleed, which actually becomes more and more prominent over time as more dye migrates into the nitro. The literature that comes with the guitar should actually mention something along these lines, and also make mention of the fact that it's natural, due to the dyes/nitro used. Kinda like the fact that your jeans will fade over time. Enough of their customers don't want them to change the way they dye/pore fill the guitars or the type of finish they use, hence are happy to have pink binding.

Warren

shaunf wrote:
Just a bit of info on this point. That "bleed" you see on the binding is the result of the red aniline dye used in the pore filler on the mahogany parts "migrating" through the nitro over time. This has been an "issue" since the 50's on ALL the red mahogany backed guitars with binding. Even my '59 custom shop reissue has this bleed, which actually becomes more and more prominent over time as more dye migrates into the nitro. The literature that comes with the guitar should actually mention something along these lines, and also make mention of the fact that it's natural, due to the dyes/nitro used. Kinda like the fact that your jeans will fade over time. Enough of their customers don't want them to change the way they dye/pore fill the guitars or the type of finish they use, hence are happy to have pink binding.

Thanks Shaun. +1 for this info.

I don't see the same sort of thing on other Les Pauls though? My old Epiphone didn't have it, most other LPs I've seen don't have it. Is it unique to the way Gibson does things?

shaunf

ShreddySmurf wrote:
shaunf wrote:
Just a bit of info on this point. That "bleed" you see on the binding is the result of the red aniline dye used in the pore filler on the mahogany parts "migrating" through the nitro over time. This has been an "issue" since the 50's on ALL the red mahogany backed guitars with binding. Even my '59 custom shop reissue has this bleed, which actually becomes more and more prominent over time as more dye migrates into the nitro. The literature that comes with the guitar should actually mention something along these lines, and also make mention of the fact that it's natural, due to the dyes/nitro used. Kinda like the fact that your jeans will fade over time. Enough of their customers don't want them to change the way they dye/pore fill the guitars or the type of finish they use, hence are happy to have pink binding.
Thanks Shaun. +1 for this info.

I don't see the same sort of thing on other Les Pauls though? My old Epiphone didn't have it, most other LPs I've seen don't have it. Is it unique to the way Gibson does things?

I don't know if it's unique to Gibson, but that red colour on the backs of the guitars and the neck is a dye mixed into the pore filler used to close the pores of the mahogany. The bleed is an interaction between the nitro finish and the dye itself. The reason you don't see the same thing on Epi's is that they don't use nitro for the finish. I think they have a poly finish.

I don't know what the other guys do, but presume if they don't do the same thing, then it's obviously down to different products being used or the mahogany is coloured in a different way.

Warren

shaunf wrote:
I don't know if it's unique to Gibson, but that red colour on the backs of the guitars and the neck is a dye mixed into the pore filler used to close the pores of the mahogany. The bleed is an interaction between the nitro finish and the dye itself. The reason you don't see the same thing on Epi's is that they don't use nitro for the finish. I think they have a poly finish.

I don't know what the other guys do, but presume if they don't do the same thing, then it's obviously down to different products being used or the mahogany is coloured in a different way.

Hang on though, the Gibson I was looking at had a poly finish and it had that sort of uneven-ness of the binding, so possibly we're talking about different things.

shaunf

ShreddySmurf wrote:
shaunf wrote:
I don't know if it's unique to Gibson, but that red colour on the backs of the guitars and the neck is a dye mixed into the pore filler used to close the pores of the mahogany. The bleed is an interaction between the nitro finish and the dye itself. The reason you don't see the same thing on Epi's is that they don't use nitro for the finish. I think they have a poly finish.

I don't know what the other guys do, but presume if they don't do the same thing, then it's obviously down to different products being used or the mahogany is coloured in a different way.
Hang on though, the Gibson I was looking at had a poly finish and it had that sort of uneven-ness of the binding, so possibly we're talking about different things.

What Gibson's have a poly finish?

Warren

shaunf wrote:
What Gibson's have a poly finish?

I see Gibson's site says they're high-gloss nitro, my mistake. I didn't know you got glossy nitro guitars ? Learned something!

FRALIN-FAN

Eish! I apologize for opening some raw wounds there with the Gibson comment.!

That Ibanez Is SUPER cool (except I would have preferred Silver hardware...)

Thanks I'll check out what's out there on the Tokai, Ibanez and perhaps Yamaha ranges..

Greets

St

DonovanB

Of the single cut LP based guitars I've played my favourites were;

Carparelli S4 (completely bias cos its the one I've stuck with)
PRS (even the SE was great)
Ibanez Artist series were great bang for the buck, cool to play too.
ESP have some flipping cool guitars in that range as well.

All of the above were based on the original, and have been improved IMO. Guitar design must move forward otherwise we'll keep looking back at Peter Green and wish to be him while the new Hendrix comes out with a kaos pad and we all complain about his new-age fandangled guitar that makes him less of a player.

Others will vouch for this, but if you want the original, you'll never settle for a copy.

guidothepimmp

If it were my $$, I would go either Ibanez Artist AR500, AR3000 or AR5000 (the 1000's are prestigemodels), or I would go for a Tokai

Been lucky enough to play both chinese and japanese Tokais and both were exceptional.

Reinhard

I played some cheaper les paul "type" guitars today. Unplugged only, gives you a good idea of the nature of the guitar as pickups can always be swapped. Biggest annoyance was the feel of the necks, reminded me of a Samick LP copy I had. Thick binding and Huge frets are not my cup of tea. Overall, the two I liked best and felt best were PRS SE's, one in Cash crusaders and one in Bothners.
Unfortunately, the high end PRS's start in the 20-30k range (edited).

If I can give you some advice, buy used. It immediately removes the financial knock you take on a new guitar. Certain brands take bigger knocks than others, so protect yourself. Surf gumtree daily.

Personally I'd go for this

http://capetown-westerncape.gumtree.co.za/c-Sports-Leisure-musical-instruments-2010-Gibson-2008-Les-Paul-Standard-with-OHSC-W0QQAdIdZ370795093

Or wait for a flametop to pop up. Besides, nobody can force you to buy a guitar if it has flaws.

Warren

Back on topic please guys, you've all burned some steam off. Sorry for any innocent posts nuked in the crossfire.

ZarK

@FRALIN FAN:

If you're after a Gibson LP, you have only one option. The other brands won't satisfy because they'll never have the name on the headstock... I have yet to play a Gibson Les Paul that didn't have inspirational tone -to say the least. Their finish and quality is obviously a heated debate...

If you're after a high quality LP and don't mind it not being a Gibson and wish to stay within your indicated budget I'd seriously consider:

- Tokai LP (Has traditional LP feel, tone and excellent quality)
- ESP Eclipse (Not sure If they're exactly within budget. They have a more modern shape and feel but the quality is top notch.)

I really like the Ibanez Artist series for a number of reasons, but they obviously don't have the Les Paul profile -if that's what you're after...

MikeM

I'm gonna chime in with my usual advice one last time.

Go to a nice big music store, play a few, and take home the one that makes your pants tight.

ZarK

MikeM wrote: Go to a nice big music store, play a few, and take home the one that makes your pants tight.

Reinhard

The guys on the PRS forums seem to really like this new model

http://www.prsguitars.com/stripped58/

I agree with Mike. Go play some singlecuts with humbuckers. Try not to look at the price and what is on the headstock. You may just find one that jumps out to you. Besides, what's more fun than trying out a bunch of guitars? I can think of worse ways to spend a Saturday morning ?

DonovanB

MikeM wrote: I'm gonna chime in with my usual advice one last time.

Go to a nice big music store, play a few, and take home the one that makes your pants tight.

+1, this should be etched on the cover of the GAS Manual...

Actually, we should write a GAS manual.