Modes

sjk

Hi
I apologize for asking something you have all probably been asked many times.
If I am playing in the key of C and want to play the Locrian mode for instance.
Do I play the C major scale a semitone lower or do I play between a low and high B, to shift the tonal center.
I have scoured the internet but can't find a definitive answer.
Thanks in advance.

MikeM

C Locrian is B Ionian/major, just with C as the root note.

Scorched

MikeM wrote: C Locrian is B Ionian/major, just with C as the root note.

Incorrect.

B Locrian is the same notes as C Ionian, except your root is now B i.e. you start from the B note.

Looking at the notes:

C Ionian: C D E F G B C

B Locrian: B C D E F G B

Word of caution! If you learn modes this way, they might sound just as a repetition of the C Ionian starting from different notes and you'll never learn the sound that makes Locrian unique.

Compare C Ionian to C Locrian, they sound worlds apart.

C Ionian: C D E F G B C

C Locrian: C Dd Ed F Gd Ad Bd C

MikeM

Ah yes, my bad there. Worked the wrong way around, C Ionian and B Locrian. Fail Mike.

However the best way to look at it IMO is, C Locrain is 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7.

sjk

So over the key of C would you play B or C Locrian?

MikeM

Man that's a very simple question with a very complex answer.

Essentially I think it boils down to what you're playing over, if you want to create tension, and what flavour you're aiming for.

Scorched

MikeM wrote: Ah yes, my bad there. Worked the wrong way around, C Ionian and B Locrian. Fail Mike.

However the best way to look at it IMO is, C Locrain is 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7.

I concur, much prefer speaking in terms of scale degrees, but in my experience people getting into chord and scales understands the notes better.

Steven, before worrying about the key. Typically a Ionian scale works well over a major chord and a Locrian over a m7b5 chord.

Try playing a C Ionian and C Locrian scale over a C major and hear the difference. (The Locrian should sound shit ?)

sjk

Thanks Scorched and MikeM, I guess it comes down to trying everything out and seeing what works.

Warren

Steven wrote: Thanks Scorched and MikeM, I guess it comes down to trying everything out and seeing what works.

It's important to play the mode over a pedal tone or a chord that fits under it nicely, otherwise as Scorched has said you will struggle to get the feel or mood of the mode.

Try playing the C locrian mode over a half-diminished chord; pick one of the following.

George-Engelbrecht

Steven wrote: Hi
I apologize for asking something you have all probably been asked many times.
If I am playing in the key of C and want to play the Locrian mode for instance.
Do I play the C major scale a semitone lower or do I play between a low and high B, to shift the tonal center.
I have scoured the internet but can't find a definitive answer.
Thanks in advance.

When you want to stay in the key of C Major you can play B Locrian (Which is the 7th mode of C Major and starts a half step lower) over the chords you are soloing over. the notes are still A B C D E F G but it starts on the B instead of the C (Ionian mode). Any time you play the C Major scale (or any mode thereof) it will sound the same because the notes are the same. Pitch range and tone on different areas on the neck makes a difference but essentially we are playing the same pitches over and over.

The tonal center stays C though. When we take for instance the D Minor Chord (the ii chord in the key of C Major) and emphasize that and then play the C Major scale (Ionian Mode) over it or maybe B Locrian you will get a D "Minorish" sound (called the Dorian sound).

The Chords in C Major are C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim. In other words, the C Major scale (and its modes) will work over all of these chords. The chord that is emphasized will make the difference in sound and tonality, not the individual notes.

zonshti

Modes should be used in a modal context (modal tunes, or riffs) and not when playing over functional harmony. if you are improvising over functional harmony i think its best to improvise over the key center and target the chord tones on the strong beats.