Raising the dead

Bob-Dubery

For those of you who don't keep an eye on what's going on in the worlds of MTV and rap, Tupac Shakur, murdered in 1996, made a "come back" appearance recently and "shared the stage" with Dr Dre and Snoop Dogg.

There's a good report at http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/resurrection-rap-tupac-hologram-knocks-em-dead-at-coachella-20120417-1x4ep.html

What struck me was the emotion this seems to have invoked amongst Tupac fans, the declaration by the studio involved that they can recreate other dead figures and put them on stage and the apparent eargness of fans to see "Tupac" in concert.

Bob-Dubery

I'm wondering how far removed this is from Natalie Cole's "duets" with her dead father or Kenny G's "duet" with Louis Armstrong. Or the shows that members of Elvis's TCB band do where they perform in sync with film footage of the King.

G-Man

I personally think it's in bad taste, it's a little too spooky.

IceCreamMan

Bee Geees did it with andy too...

its a surreal kinda moment i guess

Bob-Dubery

G-Man wrote I personally think it's in bad taste, it's a little too spooky.

I think it's questionable as well, but people do seem to like it.

See http://www.elvis.com/events/concert_tours.aspx. (and check the band that "Elvis" has for that show - Burton, Scheff, Hardin, Tutt).

singemonkey

It all seems good to me. We've always tried to preserve famous performers in one way or another. Before recording, most vanished into hazy legend because no one could actually see or hear what the fuss was about. This is merely an extension of that.

I don't think this will come to be seen as any spookier than the "spooky" preservation of the voices of the dead on records.

G-Man

singemonkey wrote I don't think this will come to be seen as any spookier than the "spooky" preservation of the voices of the dead on records.

The difference between an old recording of a long dead artist and this performance is that it was animated and choreographed by an animation house, it's not like they took a concert of his, isolated him and then made it into 3D and then created a show around that. Someone has used some artistic license along the way to make him perform (without his input), which gives it a zombie/puppet feel, to me at least.

Ok, I did some research, they won't reveal how the animation was captured, so I may be wrong in my understanding of the process, but I still think it's creepy...

Bob-Dubery

G-Man wrote
singemonkey wrote I don't think this will come to be seen as any spookier than the "spooky" preservation of the voices of the dead on records.
The difference between an old recording of a long dead artist and this performance is that it was animated and choreographed by an animation house, it's not like they took a concert of his, isolated him and then made it into 3D and then created a show around that. Someone has used some artistic license along the way to make him perform (without his input), which gives it a zombie/puppet feel, to me at least.

They did ask his family, and the family consented (possibly for a fee, I don't know).

I don't think it's spooky, but I do think this and other "raising the dead" type shoes do ask some interesting questions about what we revere and why we'd go to a show built around movie footage rather than sit at home with a DVD.

This article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopmusic/9208777/Tupac-hologram-the-future-of-live-entertainment-is-dead.html says that a Tupac tour is planned, but it raises some other interesting points.

1) If people can tour with recordings rather than an actual band, what is a "live show" anyway? (this is not new BTW. Remember Dutch band "Pussy Cat"? They fired their band and started using recordings back in the 80s).
2) Queen have not been very succesful performing with other people taking Freddy Mercury's place, but what if they could digitally resurrect Freddy - would the public pay to see that and how much?

singemonkey

This is more like seeing a recording of the person. The band's live, and having the original front-man might make it a compelling experience for people. It's a bit like people going to the cinema to watch concert films. I did that not long ago with the Scorcese Stones film.

There's also the question of mimics playing this stuff out. That's not much different from a tribute band. There would be the usual copyright issues. People will sue if you do Freddy Mercury, but I doubt that the families of people who died before 1925 or so would have that right - just like one can portray Bismark in a film without paying his family.

The Tron thing with Jeff Bridges was cool for me to see because I've been waiting for that for a long time. I started thinking nearly ten years ago that they should do a James Bond film with Sean Connery acting, but map the young Sean Connery onto it. I thought I'd definitely go and see that.

The first time I really thought about this was this advert using much simpler tech:
=

I suspect it won't be long before this stuff becomes normal to us.

Norman86

what about the Dean Martin CD?
released not too long ago... Forever cool?!

I think its a pretty good cd myself, but maybe they should be touting the concerts as the artists being "alive" or live in concert?!

Jack-Flash-Jr

Next year's Coachella line (thanks reddit):

I suspect Hendrix's spot on the line up will be controversial.

Bob-Dubery

Now that I am dead
My lawyer finally said
He wanted to have lunch with me.

Now that I'm deceased
My record sales increase
I'm making lots of royalties.

I'm a composer decomposing
I'm in the rockers hall of fame
My songs the critics they are praising
Yes! They've even learned to spell my name

Now I'm pushing daisies
Lawyers who were lazy
Are busy negotiating deals.

Now that I am boxed
They say my music rocks
It's taken on a new appeal.

They will say that I was overstressed
From the break up with my wife
But their payment plan was not the best
The cheque was in the mail all of my life.

Etc etc

"Now That I Am Dead" by John French ("Drumbo" in Captain Beefheart's Magic Band).

domhatch

interestin. imagine a line consisting exclusively of the members of the 27 club. hmm... twisted money making scheme, or genuine attempt to experience (or re-experience) that which was taken (or given up) far too early?

Norman86

But surely we wont get new music and it will only be replays / remixes?

is that where the line gets drawn? or will we see new music with the holographs??
If we do, is it really them?

domhatch

Norman86 wrote But surely we wont get new music and it will only be replays / remixes?

is that where the line gets drawn? or will we see new music with the holographs??
If we do, is it really them?

from what i understand, they are able - get this - to synthesize the artists' voices. so new music is possible. but, to my mind, it's not them. if it looks like a chicken, smells like a chicken, and sounds like a chicken, but you can put your hand through it, it's either a chicken's ghost, or a holographic representation of a chicken. i'm not a fan of ghosts, and i don't like the idea of a holographic representation of a chicken taking my money in return for a synthesized squawk and powdered eggs, if you follow.

:-\
dh

Norman86

exactly how i feel ?

Bob-Dubery

There's all kinds of permutations of this stuff going on, and I don't know where to draw the moral/taste line. Look at the album of unfinished (in his life time) Woody Guthrie tunes that Wilco did with Billy Bragg. Somebody's done something similar with some snippets of Sandy Denny lyrics that were found in a notebook somewhere.

Natalie Cole did an album of "duets" with her dead father - though I think we can assume that in this case the family approved.

Unreleased/unfinished Jimi Hendrix tracks got new bass and drums. Wasn't their a "Beatles" single many years after John's death which amounted to a demo that he'd cut with Paul, George and Ringo overdubbing parts many years later?

Some of this can be well meant. There are people who are trying to perpetuate Sandy Denny's reputation and music for no apparent personal gain to themselves.

Some very interesting things were done with Beatles recordings and sampling, with bits of old songs being stitched together in new ways and being digitally tarted up. Is that "new"? (My own thoughts were along the line of a possibly mythical university professor who told a student "Your work is both good and original. Unfortunately the parts that are original are not good and the parts that are good are not original.")

For me if it's compelling music then that's all the justification that is needed. I'd have probably gone to see the "Way To Blue" Nick Drake shows that were performed a couple of years ago if I'd had the chance - they weren't straight "tribute" shows and some of the reinterpretations were very interesting.

Averatu

Here is a new technology, an opportunity to create a new unique experience with its own merit. Instead we get an unemotional digital rehash of departed idols. Typical narrow minded record industry thinking.
What disturbs me is the fact that its TuPac, gangsta overlord. He's been enough of a negative role model, the world does not need him back.

Bob-Dubery

Averatu wrote Here is a new technology, an opportunity to create a new unique experience with its own merit. Instead we get an unemotional digital rehash of departed idols. Typical narrow minded record industry thinking.

Well there have been some digital "artists" in Japan. The thing about an artist created this way is that they don't have to look or sound like anybody else. With a Tupac or a Michael Jackson the digital creation has to be believable as that artist.

What disturbs me is the fact that its TuPac, gangsta overlord. He's been enough of a negative role model, the world does not need him back.

Lots of musicians aren't positive role models. Musicians are not necessarily more enlightened than anybody else, and I can find reasons for objecting to (or at least getting on the high horse about) many artists (most of them not rappers). If I stopped buying discs on the basis that the artist had done or espoused things that I find objectionable I would have a rather smaller CD collection than I currently have and also a shorter shopping list.