Uncapped Les Paul

Wizard · 2012-04-01T10:21:03+00:00

I've been mucking about trying to build a LP-ish body for a friend for a very, very long time. It started out with excitement as he thought I'd help him. We...

Uncapped Les Paul

makepeace

This is probably not going to help your decision, but why don't you put a tailpiece terminated at the button?

I think that would be the raddest ?arty:

Wizard

makepeace wrote: This is probably not going to help your decision, but why don't you put a tailpiece terminated at the button?

Nice idea! (your picture is a little embedded there)
Where would one get such a bridge?

Gearhead

A powerful wizard would make the tailpiece and a wealthy wizard would buy a TOM bridge for it, almost anywhere. A clever wizard would realise he does not have to get the neck angle that accurate if he aims for the middle of the height adjustment stroke of the TOM bridge of his liking so he can continue building without having the bridge in his hands. ?

Wizard

Routed the neck pocket in a way that gives me options.
Have made it with zero angle ala strat bridge.
If I want to angle it upwards later for a TOM bridge I can rout it out angled and deeper.

Here's the mockup so far:

I bought a l-o-n-g drill bit for (gulp) 300 ront to drill the internal wiring holes.
It worked so well the drilling took me about 14 seconds in total.

Now it gets handed back to the client to see what he wants to do with it further.

singemonkey

Wizard, I'm no woodworker, but I am an avid fanboy of guitar build threads ? Won't you have issues with a zero degree neck? I say this because watching Gil Yaron's 335 build thread, he points out how the very first '58s had no real neck angle, and the TOM had to have the bottom shaved off and be flush with the top to give the correct angle. They corrected this in later models by shimming the fingerboard. What I gathered from this is that the lack of sufficient angle may limit your options for setting your action?

I know that early Les Pauls also had a shallower angle than modern ones. But even that wasn't zero. I think 4degrees maybe?

makepeace

Wizard wrote:
makepeace wrote: This is probably not going to help your decision, but why don't you put a tailpiece terminated at the button?
Nice idea! (your picture is a little embedded there)
Where would one get such a bridge?

Woops, fixed now. After doing some looking around, this doesn't look like a proposition, unless you're willing to fabricate it. From what I've read this morning though, it does seem there were many (obvious) problems with this setup, such as intonation. What you could do if you like the trapeze tailpiece idea is use something like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LONG-GUITAR-TRAPEZE-TAILPIECE-OPEN-FRAME-GIBSON-ETC-/200311320534?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2ea37c2fd6#ht_6272wt_11

and use a normal bridge, but you'd still have to find a way of lowering the strings.

Or, you could redesign the 52' LP (in the way that they SHOULD have done) and work it so that your studs are basically runner channels, accurately machined with a fine surface finish, and then your bridge posts (also finely machined) sit in each of these channels and you can move the bridge toward and away from the neck using the threaded ends of the trapeze. Might be a little overcomplicated, but someone should try it.

Why are you so opposed to the idea of tilting the neck? I'm sure you could quite easily fabricate a triangle wedge shim to get it to within a fairly reasonable degree of accuracy. I assume its a bolt on? Which would make things easier from the point of view of getting the right angle.

edit: unless you act quickly http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LONG-GUITAR-TRAPEZE-TAILPIECE-OPEN-FRAME-GIBSON-ETC-/200311320534?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2ea37c2fd6#ht_6272wt_11 ? :-\

Wizard

singemonkey wrote: Won't you have issues with a zero degree neck? I say this because watching Gil Yaron's 335 build thread, he points out how the very first '58s had no real neck angle, and the TOM had to have the bottom shaved off and be flush with the top to give the correct angle.

makepeace wrote: Why are you so opposed to the idea of tilting the neck? I'm sure you could quite easily fabricate a triangle wedge shim to get it to within a fairly reasonable degree of accuracy. I assume its a bolt on? Which would make things easier from the point of view of getting the right angle.

I'm not opposed to tilting the neck and think I know how to do it.

My problems was rushing to cut the neck pocket before making up my mind about the bridge.
I agree that a TOM bridge needs a tilted neck.

I can now decide on:
- hardtail strat bridge. Leave the neck as is.
- TOM bridge. Cut the pocket deeper and tilted.

Wizard

This isn't an entirely shocking idea:

makepeace

Wizard wrote: This isn't an entirely shocking idea:

+1!

Gearhead

makepeace wrote: Or, you could redesign the 52' LP (in the way that they SHOULD have done) and work it so that your studs are basically runner channels, accurately machined with a fine surface finish, and then your bridge posts (also finely machined) sit in each of these channels and you can move the bridge toward and away from the neck using the threaded ends of the trapeze. Might be a little overcomplicated, but someone should try it.

There is an easier and tried-and-tested method of achieving something similar: a push screw at the back of the bridge on either side behind the bridge post. Tightening the screw will make the bridge slide back in its U shape around the post.

makepeace

Gearhead wrote: There is an easier and tried-and-tested method of achieving something similar: a push screw at the back of the bridge on either side behind the bridge post. Tightening the screw will make the bridge slide back in its U shape around the post.

Ya, but then there goes your tailpiece :'(

MikeM

Tailpieces also have an effect on perceived string tension. Less break angle and more length means the strings will feel more slinky.

makepeace

Which means you can use higher gauges?

vic

Wizard wrote: Further question:

I've realized the neck angle is intimately related to the type of bridge and bridge height.

What are the pro's and con's of:
a) bridge + tailpiece, vs.
b) bridge which terminates the strings (like a wraparound bridge)

Seems like I must make a bridge decision before I make a neck angle and neck height decision.

This looks like valuable info for your purpose

http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/index.php

singemonkey

Wizard wrote: This isn't an entirely shocking idea:

Can't help but agree: ?

Wizard

Some body shaping & rounding been done.

Going to use a TOM bridge; so next trick is to get an angled neck pocket sorted out.
Going to copy my M200.

singemonkey

Are you going to glue the neck in?

Wizard

Came up with a cool way to measure the neck angle of an existing guitar.
(since I'm trying to copy the neck angle of my M200)

I laid the M200 down; and placed shims under the body until a (437mm long) spirit level next was flat; lying next to the pups.
When same level was placed on the neck; it was obviously not level.
Shimmed the spirit level up until it was level..
Then used a vernier to see how high I had raised it = 11.3mm

Then: tan(angle) = lifted height / length of spirit level = 11.4 / 437

Turns out to be 1.49 degrees.

Wizard

Neck pocket adjusted to 1.5 degrees.
Will know if it's ok when the bridge is installed.

Wizard

Very bad phone picture.
Imbuia stain with unusual approach used to get the black burst.
(don't ask)