Chorus on acoustic?

Nitebob

Somebody told me a chorus pedal on an acoustic guitar gives it a 12-string guitar sound, a nice rich, full tone. Anybody tried this? Any truth to it?

deefstes

Nitebob wrote: Somebody told me a chorus pedal on an acoustic guitar gives it a 12-string guitar sound, a nice rich, full tone. Anybody tried this? Any truth to it?

Yes, I suppose you could compare it to the sound of a 12 string. You can only use it very moderately though as a heavy chorus effect makes the guitar sound like you're swimming in a Vogon construction fleet space ship toilet cubicle. I'm personally not mad about the sound of chorus applied to acoustic guitar.

DonovanB

Chorus, when used sparingly, can sound good. Steve Fataar played on mine the other day when I was playing a Nylon string. With a tiny bit of delay as well it sounded great.

Squonk

Donovan Banks wrote: Chorus, when used sparingly, can sound good. Steve Fataar played on mine the other day when I was playing a Nylon string. With a tiny bit of delay as well it sounded great.

This is the thing - SPARINGLY. Too many acoustic guitarists think the Chorus is some kind of a life saver, but as Deefstes says "sounds like you're swimming in a Vogon construction fleet space ship toilet cubicle"

Rather get a 12 String

Bob-Dubery

I think it's a useful effect for acoustic guitar, though I don't necessarily think of it as a way to get a 12 string sound.

For me a lot of modern chorus pedals don't sound great. Years ago I had an Ibanez chorus that I wish I still had, a richer, deeper sound.

John Martyn used chorus and flange with acoustics. Not a little touch either. Not so much a sweetened acoustic sound as a separate, distinctive sound. Richard Thompson often uses a univibe with acoustic guitar.

IMO most modulation effects can be used with acoustic. Hmmm.... maybe not phase so much. Tremolo can work well.

Listen to http://www.box.net/shared/fzub1kvdip . That's a competition entry I did a while back. The overdriven sound was really accidental - the pickup on that guitar (a Smoothtalker) was very loud and was overdriving the sound card (or something). But listen to the effect. That's a Line 6 MM4 in univibe emulation.

It depends on what you're trying to do. For me FX open up a world in which you can get lots of sounds, just not necessarily slightly sweetened "acoustic" sounds.

deefstes

X-rated Bob wrote: IMO most modulation effects can be used with acoustic. Hmmm.... maybe not phase so much. Tremolo can work well.

Yes, tremolo is the one effect that I think works best on acoustic. I suppose it's different strokes but I'm personally just not very fond of the chorus effect on an acoustic guitar, and in fact just about all other effects. Maybe it's the sound that I don't like or maybe it's the principle of butchering a tone that has been achieved through expert craftsmanship and choice tone woods. Maybe it's just the purist in me who also feels that you don't mix good whisky with Coke.

But that's just me, play around and find what you like. It's in that playing around with effects, alternate tunings, tinkling behind the nut, mid song tuning of the guitar and whatever other weird and unconventional approaches that people find their own unique style.

But, like I said, I do like the effect of tremolo on acoustic. I used it quite aggressively in my most recent challenge entry.
http://www.box.com/s/0bfo2eeai4gc0bdgoob9

AlanRatcliffe

For me, it's a case of 12-string has a bit of a chorus sound than the reverse. You get more accurate 12-string tones by pitch shifting up an octave and mixing in about 25% to the original sound. Not very natural, but adds a similar sparkle.

Some chorii (??) work better on acoustic than others. I like the ones which only add chorus to the higher frequencies, so you get the extra depth and shimmer, but without the pitch modulation "out of tuniness" in the lower frequencies. Also dual choruses like the Bi-Mode chorus and the TC Electronic "Advanced Chorus"do well at getting depth without "wobble". Some players prefer the warmth of analog chorus.

Still, regardless of which chorus you go for, "a dab'll do ya". Modulation in moderation (unless it's a Univibe up front of a fuzz ?).

deefstes wrote: Maybe it's just the purist in me who also feels that you don't mix good whisky with Coke.

You don't mix good whiskey with anything! >☹ Not water not ice... nothing. Took me a while to teach the local bar staff that "neat" does not mean "with ice" or "with the ice scooped out after the fact". ?

Riaan-Combrink

When using an (amplified) acoustic on stage, I've always found that a touch of delay is a great way of making the guitar sound fuller - particularly if the rest of the backing is sparse. But, as Alan said, a touch will do it.

Riaan-Combrink

Riaan C wrote: When using an (amplified) acoustic on stage, I've always found that a touch of delay is a great way of making the guitar sound fuller - particularly if the rest of the backing is sparse. But, as Alan said, a touch will do it.

In my view, however, one must always guard against making an acoustic guitar sound like something it isn't. So don't overdo any effect, and try to get the guitar to sound as natural as possible. If not, what's the point - unless you are deliberately crafting a unique sound (like Martyn, as XRB said). That said, Ive found that a touch of tremelo and delay can enhance the sound of an acoustic - as opposed to altering its sound. Also, be guided by the quality of your pickup. If its not great, rather mike the acoustic.

PS. Some guys run into real trouble when trying to blend the onboard EQ settings of most semi-acoustics with external FX - so if the effect is not sounding great, check how it reacts when you adjust the onboard stuff.

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: IMO most modulation effects can be used with acoustic. Hmmm.... maybe not phase so much. Tremolo can work well.
Yes, tremolo is the one effect that I think works best on acoustic. I suppose it's different strokes but I'm personally just not very fond of the chorus effect on an acoustic guitar, and in fact just about all other effects. Maybe it's the sound that I don't like or maybe it's the principle of butchering a tone that has been achieved through expert craftsmanship and choice tone woods.

Well yes, and I like that sound too BUT once you start amplifying you're compromising that sound anyway.

I mean just LOOK at Richard Thompson. He buys those lovely Lowden guitars (and I've played a couple, and they are really, really good) and then he sticks a humbucker in the sound hole and a condensor mic inside and runs all that through a pre-amp. The butcher!

John Martyn had gaffer tape all over his D28, holding various contact devices and their cables against the top, and a mag pickup (I think de Armond, but don't quote me) in the soundhole.

So at that point you might say "in for a penny, in for a pound" and do whatever works for you because the sound is now irreversibly modified and then the univibes and the flangers and the fuzz (Martyn) can come into play.

It depends on what you want to do. Are you trying to achieve a faithful reproduction of an acoustic sound, or do you want to do a solo set and add whatever colours you think are appropriate?

Squonk

Riaan C wrote:
Riaan C wrote: When using an (amplified) acoustic on stage, I've always found that a touch of delay is a great way of making the guitar sound fuller - particularly if the rest of the backing is sparse. But, as Alan said, a touch will do it.
In my view, however, one must always guard against making an acoustic guitar sound like something it isn't. So don't overdo any effect, and try to get the guitar to sound as natural as possible. If not, what's the point - unless you are deliberately crafting a unique sound (like Martyn, as XRB said). That said, Ive found that a touch of tremelo and delay can enhance the sound of an acoustic - as opposed to altering its sound. Also, be guided by the quality of your pickup. If its not great, rather mike the acoustic.

PS. Some guys run into real trouble when trying to blend the onboard EQ settings of most semi-acoustics with external FX - so if the effect is not sounding great, check how it reacts when you adjust the onboard stuff.

+1

Also depends on what kind of music you are playing(e.g. John Martyn as you mentioned). I have been experimenting (ala Adrian Legg) with some of my compositions, adding a bit of chorus/phaser/ flanger etc, but this would not be the type of music you hear on the radio ?

I have seen/heard many acoustic guitarists in Pubs Restaurants etc that use the chorus almost as a crutch, and it sounds like processed cheese. There is an art to get it sounding right

Nitebob

deefstes wrote:
Nitebob wrote: Somebody told me a chorus pedal on an acoustic guitar gives it a 12-string guitar sound, a nice rich, full tone. Anybody tried this? Any truth to it?
Yes, I suppose you could compare it to the sound of a 12 string. You can only use it very moderately though as a heavy chorus effect makes the guitar sound like you're swimming in a Vogon construction fleet space ship toilet cubicle. I'm personally not mad about the sound of chorus applied to acoustic guitar.

PeteM

I use chorus on my nylon for specific numbers... not to get a 12 string replication but to add to the mood of the particular number. Works for me. What is a 'purist'?... I've yet to meet one.

deefstes

PeteM wrote:What is a 'purist'?... I've yet to meet one.

It's a fancy word for an anal, anile, "verkrampte" bonehead who is overly obsessed with style. Pleased to make your acquaintance ?

Nitebob

Sorry, guys I'm trying to do all this from a Blackberry. Work has firewalled every site containing the words... Sound, guitar, and music (wonder if I had something to do with it) I MISS YOU GUYS :'( Anyhoo...Deef, well done on that Western theme man. Bob that other clip was awesome as well man. I wanna go the whole 'get a 12 string' route, but the bank keeps on insisting I pay my Credit card and Overdraft...petty if you ask me...

deefstes

Speaking of unconventional guitar playing, he may not be using a chorus pedal but check this song by Tommy Emmanuel. "Guitar craftsmanship? Choice tonewood? I'll show you what this guitar can do..."
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Bob-Dubery

zohn wrote:
Riaan C wrote: In my view, however, one must always guard against making an acoustic guitar sound like something it isn't.
+1

What is an "acoustic guitar" really? Especially when it's got some kind of pickup fitted to it. I really don't buy this idea of an acoustic guitar sounding [however it sounds] and having to sound that way.

That's not how music is made, or not the only way, and it's not a way to progress or to get new ideas.

I know that Deeftes has an album by the name of "Mirror Blue" at home. I gave that a listen on my earbuds today. There's some quite interesting stuff going on with "acoustic" guitars. On some tracks the output from the pickup is fed into an electric guitar amp to dirty it up a bit. On some tracks there's a little bit of univibe added to give the sound some shimmer, some spookiness. On another there's a LOT of univibe (turned up quite fast) plus reverb. All of it to good musical effect. Coke and whisky? Or trying to get the right sound for the song?

If a guitar had to sound like a guitar then nobody would have tried to play the thing with a slide, or deviants who got such ideas would have been strenuously discouraged. Nobody would have bothered to start putting pickups on the thing in order to get the volume to play in bands that were getting ever louder. Would resonators be allowed? What about this idea of using METAL strings? I mean going from gut to nylon was bad enough, wasn't it?

And why are we expressing such thoughts about ACOUSTIC guitars? (though exactly how acoustic mine are is moot - they've both got pickups, internal mics and on-board pre-amps). There's no school of thought that says that a Stratocaster must sound like THIS. If there ever was then I hope Jimi Hendrix ended that school of restrictive thinking once and for all. The sound of electric guitars in general has changed substantially over the last 5 or so decades - amps and the ideas behind them have changed, pickups got hotter, whammy bars got added, the number of effects available has changed.

Why not modify the sound of an acoustic guitar if that's what facilitates your creative urges?

PeteM

zohn wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote:
zohn wrote:
Riaan C wrote: In my view, however, one must always guard against making an acoustic guitar sound like something it isn't.
+1
What is an "acoustic guitar" really? Especially when it's got some kind of pickup fitted to it. I really don't buy this idea of an acoustic guitar sounding [however it sounds] and having to sound that way.
Just that - an acoustic guitar. No pick-up system has to date replicated the exact sound of the acoustic guitar, and I'm quite sure nothing in the too distant future will. Microphones are about it and some do it pretty well.

I'm not against plugging in nor tayloring the signals to suit a mix, I'm against altering the sound of acoustic guitars with effects to make them sound different - I bought mine for the unique and pleasing sound the luthiers instilled in them, and because I like what I hear, not the sound a gimmick adds to it to replicate a particular recording or sound of a known artist.

X-rated Bob wrote: Why not modify the sound of an acoustic guitar if that's what facilitates your creative urges?
No problem Bob! - why don't you?
?

Okay, I've decided that I don't play an acoustic guitar. It might look like one... it's a few pieces of wood glued together and strung with nylon strings. I amplify the sound and add a chorus effect, not because I want to sound like someone else but because I want it to sound the way I want. I like it.... you don't have to.

Riaan-Combrink

X-rated Bob wrote: Why not modify the sound of an acoustic guitar if that's what facilitates your creative urges?

I think that's exactly right. And everything Bob's said is spot on. Otherwise we'd all be Woody Guthrie. So no argument there.

But my point - made very early in the thread - was aimed solely - and very specifically - at addressing what I undestood the OP's question to be. It was answered from the perspective of playing an acoustic amplified in a generic type environment - and wanting to thicken or colour the sound slightly. My input was based on practical experience in exactly that type of setting, not some purist-type agenda :-[

Just to clarify...

Riaan-Combrink

Here's Tommy Emmanuel talking about how he uses effects with acoustic guitars:

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