Where to find nice tone caps in Durban?

Skylark

My guitars tone is not using the full sweep and I checked the tone cap and its the wrong type & size

Where in Durban could I find caps that would sound nice in a guitar.
I'm looking for musical sounding Ceramic or Film caps or whatever will work & sound good.
Caps for industrial/electronic control circuits are often not very nice sounding in circuits that output sound for human hearing.

And any suggestions on cap size for Tonerider Rocksongs - I want the most soul wrenching rich sound I can get out of them!!

guidothepimmp

I'm sure any decent guitar tech should have?

slyd

Skylark wrote I checked the tone cap and its the wrong type & size

What are you comparing them to . . .
There is no absolute right or wrong here . . . .. different caps produce different tonal qualities when paired with different pickups.

Skylark wrote Caps for industrial/electronic control circuits are often not very nice sounding in circuits that output sound for human hearing.

And any suggestions on cap size for Tonerider Rocksongs - I want the most soul wrenching rich sound I can get out of them!!

Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function, although some folks would recommend either the old "oil-paper", the "orange drop", the "Polypropylene ", the "Poly Film", the "Ceramic", the "Metal Film" . . . . etc.etc. Personal preference maybe . . . . who knows . . . ?

The "soul wrenching rich sound" you desire, can only produced by YOU ! 8)

MikeM

The taper of your pot, controls how fast or slow the sweep is.. Option is either audio or linear, although audio is almost always preferred.

In terms of tone caps, I personally like 0.015uF or so on the neck and 0.22uF on the bridge.

There are mild, MILD differences between material types. Typically PIO are less attacky, but I don't know where to get any locally.

Your best bet would be to get some kind of poly cap, as they're very neutral and let your guitar respond naturally.

Can you open it up and let us know what markings the pot has (usually on top, where it mounts against the guitar) and the cap has.

Skylark

slyd wrote
Skylark wrote I checked the tone cap and its the wrong type & size
What are you comparing them to . . .
There is no absolute right or wrong here . . . .. different caps produce different tonal qualities when paired with different pickups.

Skylark wrote Caps for industrial/electronic control circuits are often not very nice sounding in circuits that output sound for human hearing.

And any suggestions on cap size for Tonerider Rocksongs - I want the most soul wrenching rich sound I can get out of them!!
Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function, although some folks would recommend either the old "oil-paper", the "orange drop", the "Polypropylene ", the "Poly Film", the "Ceramic", the "Metal Film" . . . . etc.etc. Personal preference maybe . . . . who knows . . . ?

The "soul wrenching rich sound" you desire, can only produced by YOU ! 8)

Pfffff ya right.
All capacitors are the same , just like the E note in any guitar tuned to to A 440 Hz sounds the same.
Mmmmm
Subtleties maybe but nevertheless a perceivable or possibly even large difference.

Using Slyds theory we can just use surface mounted parts everywhere because "Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"

Skylark

MikeM wrote The taper of your pot, controls how fast or slow the sweep is.. Option is either audio or linear, although audio is almost always preferred.

In terms of tone caps, I personally like 0.015uF or so on the neck and 0.22uF on the bridge.

There are mild, MILD differences between material types. Typically PIO are less attacky, but I don't know where to get any locally.

Your best bet would be to get some kind of poly cap, as they're very neutral and let your guitar respond naturally.

Can you open it up and let us know what markings the pot has (usually on top, where it mounts against the guitar) and the cap has.

The cap type/dieletric is wrong , I know from past experience that that particular cap shouldn't be used in guitars because they sound kak and it does. And I know the idiot who fitted them - he put them in because he had nothing else at the time , he wasn't supposed to put them in and he told me as much.
The pot tapers are B504 which is log I think

Skylark

guidothepimmp wrote I'm sure any decent guitar tech should have?

Decent guitar tech in Durban central , if someone could tell me where I could find that? :'(

slyd

Skylark wrote Using Slyds theory we can just use surface mounted parts everywhere because "Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"

sarkie sarkie :-\
Hey, don't poke me in eye with a sharp stick here (or slap me in the stomach with a wet fish) ??? The "basic principle" of a capacitor, remains the same, no matter how it's made. There are further variances in that some make-ups are more suited to higher frequencies, or higher voltages, or even resonance. There are basic norms for values as has been accepted by most manufacturers, such as the .022µF for single coils, and the .047µF for humbuckers, . . . .and so on . . . . but as I said, there are no rules here

put on a ? "happy face"

MikeM

Using Slyds theory we can just use surface mounted parts everywhere because "Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"

We can? The subtlety between different caps is something that should be experienced first hand. Buy a couple of different types of 0.022uF caps and a rotary switch, and wire them up yourself, that way you can decide which sounds best to you.

Point is, there is a difference, but in 95% of the cases, you won't hear something on a recording and think, jeeee those polystyrene caps sound GOOOD!

aja

some (possibly related) reading material:

http://conradhoffman.com/cap_measurements_100606.html

Click next at bottom for much more info...
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/capacitor/capacitor_types.php

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm

ezietsman

MikeM wrote
Using Slyds theory we can just use surface mounted parts everywhere because "Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"
We can? The subtlety between different caps is something that should be experienced first hand. Buy a couple of different types of 0.022uF caps and a rotary switch, and wire them up yourself, that way you can decide which sounds best to you.

Point is, there is a difference, but in 95% of the cases, you won't hear something on a recording and think, jeeee those polystyrene caps sound GOOOD!

Some big manufacturers believes surface mount story:

Electrically its the same, so they have good reason.

ezietsman

I should add that the Gibson board doesn't seem to contain any surface mounted components, but it makes little difference really.

Skylark

slyd wrote
Skylark wrote Using Slyds theory we can just use surface mounted parts everywhere because "Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"
sarkie sarkie :-\
Hey, don't poke me in eye with a sharp stick here (or slap me in the stomach with a wet fish) ??? The "basic principle" of a capacitor, remains the same, no matter how it's made. There are further variances in that some make-ups are more suited to higher frequencies, or higher voltages, or even resonance. There are basic norms for values as has been accepted by most manufacturers, such as the .022µF for single coils, and the .047µF for humbuckers, . . . .and so on . . . . but as I said, there are no rules here

put on a ? "happy face"

I don't know what you trying to say.
You made the statement , not me:
"Capacitors are capacitors; they all perform the same function"

Its like saying : "Woods are Woods ; they all perform the same function"
I suppose for some people that don't know much about wood that may be true.
But we all know that when it comes to guitars that couldn't be further from the truth.
Just as it is with capacitors.

I don't think anyone is saying using caps with different dielectrics or old caps etc will make a radical change or transform a piece of junk into amazing , but anyone who has methodically tried different cap dielectrics at the same Farad value will agree they do have different timbres.
From what I understand its in the harmonics where the different dielectric tweak the sound by filtering the signal in slightly different ways or possibly introducing dissonance and if you really crank up the volume the timbre of the different caps should become even more apparent as the harmonics start to get a little bit of presence.

I have done the rotary switch thing as MikeM mentioned and it was definitely possible to hear a difference and there were some caps that hit the spot better than others. For different pups and different people that spot will also be different.

Some say old caps can sometimes(not all times) sound really nice due to the bizarre way the dielectric is breaking down and filtering the signal in ways not possible with a new cap.
Most old caps are probably just rubbish tho

slyd

Hey Skylark, I'm really not trying to bump heads with you here ???
You're just taking that one line of mine out of context, as compared to the intention of my original post, in which I acknowledged that "different caps produce different tonal qualities when paired with different pickups", and so on. My point was just that any differences are small, and IMHO, a plain ol' orange drop or similar (at nominal value) will suffice, and you then concentrate on areas that affect your sound more (a really good setup, amp settings, fx settings, optimal pup height, etc.)

That's all I intended, mate
cheers
Dave

MikeM

http://www.waynekirkwood.com/Images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Notes_Cap_Sound_1.pdf

Shapow.

Skylark

MikeM wrote http://www.waynekirkwood.com/Images/pdf/Cyril_Bateman/Bateman_Notes_Cap_Sound_1.pdf

Shapow.

Mike basically that guy is saying that caps affect mostly the 2nd order (or was it the third) harmonics and can add distortion depending on what type they are?
But gawd damn those scientists are long winded :-\

MikeM

2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in fact.

Point is, different caps, even of the same material type, responded differently ?

Skylark

MikeM wrote 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in fact.

Point is, different caps, even of the same material type, responded differently ?

Mike , you are the man!! ?
:goodtimes:
Take that capacitor nazi's!!!

MikeM

I was actually linked it on another forum where we were discussing on whether resistors do actually have an influence on tone besides signal to noise ratio - as usual it went completely off topic, some folk saying PIO and SMD sound exactly the same as long as they are the same value. Thankfully someone proved him wrong ? And yes, different resistors also have an influence on tone ?

Skylark

This was on tdpri.com :

"Something else for the skeptical engineers to consider, before dismissing the capacitor sound as being in the heads of cork sniffers, is that the guitar circuit is a very high-impedance circuit. I’m hard pressed to think of any circuit that is commonly this high. As a result, many things that would be truly insignificant for a lower-impedance circuit can play a role in guitar circuits. An example is the guitar cord. Given the high-impedance of the circuit, the pico-farads of cord capacitance can effect the signal. Of course it depends on the guitar, amp input characteristics, and length of cord."

"The most interesting thing to me is his finding that even among single batches of otherwise-consistent caps, there would occasionally be "duds" that measured significantly higher harmonic distortion than others in the batch. Also interesting is that lots of this is primarily second-harmonic... which gives a "sweetening" effect. Perhaps the "duds" are the ones we like, as guitarists, who welcome coloration/distortion."

Very good thread http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/233224-russian-pio-tone-caps.html