Close Micing - opinions - GuitarTalk Community

Close Micing - opinions

PeachyDragon

It's an interesting trends. Everything gets close-mic'd these days.
I know the Beatles probably only used two condenser mics early on to give
the sound of the room rather than just the instrument playing right against your ear...

Many older famous musicians claim that nothing has been correctly recorded in the last
20 years. A musician I knew also stated that it's a pity Queen(or the Beatles) don't sound
like a modern band(he played me some Mars Volta)...

When we record we also use close-micing... it's the sound of the time. People have grown to expect
that sound... Nevermind the HIDEOUS over-compression used nowadays during mastering...
Open up a wave-file in an editing application and look at the difference between a Linkin park
song and a Beatles song.... just scary.

Your opinions?

Nitebob

Only about the mastering, it's turning businessmen into artists which they are not...but I've already said my share about that, with regards to close micing, I'm assuming the alternative is sound recorded straight from the sound system (PA for lack of better word)...because no artists voice is going to carry over a strat coming out of a messa boogie, that's not even mentioning the bass. So close micing will have to be done at least to some small extent, unless I am understanding the thread wrong...

PeachyDragon

Nitebob wrote: Only about the mastering, it's turning businessmen into artists which they are not...but I've already said my share about that, with regards to close micing, I'm assuming the alternative is sound recorded straight from the sound system (PA for lack of better word)...because no artists voice is going to carry over a strat coming out of a messa boogie, that's not even mentioning the bass. So close micing will have to be done at least to some small extent, unless I am understanding the thread wrong...

Well, I'm no expert. I think the essence is that vocals will always be close mic'd but a drumkit can be close mic'd or room mic'd or both.
Many blues recording engineers point the mic at the wall or the window to get sound bouncing around and natural ambiance. So instruments are still isolated but the sound has time to develop before hitting the mic. Just comparing any new rock recording to the first black sabbath albums will make this very obvious... I think?... well, Beatles/Bob Dylan versus, Mars Volta/My chemical Romance... that should illustrate it well.

And NOOOOooo, no direct from PA stuff. ? Although it is used on Bass. Sometimes even on guitar... which I don't recommend.

majestikc

I think it just has to do with aesthetics and evolution, once upon a time the recording of music itself seemed strange and quaint...."not the way music should be heard".

Another reason may have been the number of mics available, number of channels/pre-amps on the desk, tape track count etc. Also way back when, studios used to have a strict method that the employees had to stick to, if the rules where that you only used 2-3 mics on the drums then that's what you did.

Close micing is just another option that yields it's own type of sound, use it or don't, there is no right or wrong way. A lot of those oldtimer's used to think that the synthesizer would completely replace real instruments and that the electric guitar would replace the acoustic guitar...........how wrong they were.

Close micing drums probably had it's early origins in live sound.

As far as modern recordings being raped to super loudness via extreme limiting that is a problem on so many levels.

PeachyDragon

For anyone who doesn't understand the compression mastering argument.
Songs that seem louder on radio seem "better" to the public. So engineers
have been steadily compressing more and more despite their better judgement
which squashes the dynamics, but makes the over all product seem MUCH louder
on some cases.

Nitebob

When I record at home, I plug the Crafter (hybrid) straight into the interface. But I've heard the sound is much better once ran through a valve amp, sounds kinda logic now that I say it...Even read Alan tutorials on recording and tried to record the acoustic through the condensor mic, but I got no sound so even that gets plugged in...

PeachyDragon

Nitebob wrote: When I record at home, I plug the Crafter (hybrid) straight into the interface. But I've heard the sound is much better once ran through a valve amp, sounds kinda logic now that I say it...Even read Alan tutorials on recording and tried to record the acoustic through the condensor mic, but I got no sound so even that gets plugged in...

No sound meaning it's too soft or do you mean nothing?
Did you have phantom power switched on on the mixer?

majestikc

PeachyDragon wrote: For anyone who doesn't understand the compression mastering argument.
Songs that seem louder on radio seem "better" to the public. So engineers
have been steadily compressing more and more despite their better judgement
which squashes the dynamics, but makes the over all product seem MUCH louder
on some cases.

It's like forcing 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound sack

Malkav

I'm gonna be the lame-o who comes in and says straight up that I prefer modern recording over the old school stuff ?

I also think modern guitar tones are far better ? If that's a side effect of close micing then I'm all for it ?

AlanRatcliffe

Loudness wars aside (completely different issue)...

Both are valid approaches. It's horses for courses, depending on music, instrument and track style. Sometimes you use both techniques on different instruments for the contrast to set them apart from one another.

If the music has more space in it, the ambience from distant and room mics helps add air and space, while close miking gives you the punch and immediacy to cut through a dense sound or mix. I wouldn't close mic a solo guitarist or a piano any more than I'd room mic a metal guitarist. I'd use mostly overheads if I was recording a jazz drummer, just bringing in the close mics to fix balance, while I'd start with the close mics with a rock or pop drummer. Etc., etc., etc..

For me a more important question is do you compress your room mic, and if so do you mult it or not?

Nitebob

PeachyDragon wrote:
Nitebob wrote: When I record at home, I plug the Crafter (hybrid) straight into the interface. But I've heard the sound is much better once ran through a valve amp, sounds kinda logic now that I say it...Even read Alan tutorials on recording and tried to record the acoustic through the condensor mic, but I got no sound so even that gets plugged in...
No sound meaning it's too soft or do you mean nothing?
Did you have phantom power switched on on the mixer?

Well you can hear it faintly, but not enough to get any clarity even at full blast. Don't use a mixer only Scarlett interface...automatic phantom, will try it again when I have more time...

PeachyDragon

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: For me a more important question is do you compress your room mic, and if so do you mult it or not?

Now the conversation is out of my league. ? Anyone else?

Tokai-SA

PeachyDragon wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: For me a more important question is do you compress your room mic, and if so do you mult it or not?
Now the conversation is out of my league. ? Anyone else?

No comment. ?

Nitebob

Where is Tomcat when you need him....?

majestikc

I completely molest the room mic, if the needle isn't pinned then it's no good, then just bring it up until it's "kicking-ass"

majestikc

..............just have to leave the cymbals out of it if possible of course

AlanRatcliffe

majestikc wrote: I completely molest the room mic, if the needle isn't pinned then it's no good, then just bring it up until it's "kicking-ass"

Ah an old school tape guy, eh? Try pinning the needle on a DAW... ? I asked because I used to comp the room mic quite heavy but on a parallel mult channel, but these days I seem to be getting better results just with a single channel and a less aggressive setting on the comp.

majestikc

I kind of meant pinning the needle in the plug-ins that have needle emulation ? . Most of the stuff I do is kind of heavy, i.e: mainly big guitars, so I "crush" the room mics and then just bring it in enough until the more close mic'd samples start getting some good size and space to them, too much reverb just makes things messy, so I rely mostly on the room mics.

For lighter stuff I probably wouldn't do much to the room mics.

PeachyDragon

I wanted to fix the pitch on two bends I did on a recent recording and I noticed
that fixing pitch when 2 mics are involved is a bit tricky... unless you get
them exactly the same you suddenly get a noticeable drop in volume and
a chorus effect. I left it in on one part... but I will always hear it... to most people
it will just sound slightly psychedelic.

majestikc

The dreaded phase shift