New Die Antwoord

Jack-Flash-Jr · 2012-01-17T23:47:06+00:00

I fink I fink too much... http://pitchfork.com/news/45095-new-die-antwoord-i-fink-u-freeky/

Danny-B

makepeace wrote
They did all that keeping their integrity intact, unlike other groups such as the Parlatones who would sell there own sister on a cereal box if it put them forward a step.
yeah i don't believe this for a second. i don't think they had integrity to begin with. but that doesn't make them bad, just a poor justification for why you might like them.

There is no evidence to support the premise that they have no integrity, and your grounds for believing it seem to be quite blurred.

I understand you don't like it - I don't like the music, but then again I do not think Die Antwoord are pursuing a musical goal. They use music as a vector for their incredibly intelligent performances, which include their music videos and live shows. That music video is simultaneously hilarious and slightly shocking. The production value of that music video is astounding. The images are so riveting. There is serious intelligence behind Die Antwoord, and in no way does this particular representation of the two actors(namely Yolandi and Ninja) signify a 'loss of integrity'.

makepeace

some definitions of integrity:

Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy, in that it regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.

(wikipedia)

The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

(oxford, merriam et-al)

Doing the right thing even when nobody's looking.

(urban dictionary)

Integrity is admitting to a wrong when you think you can still get away with it.

(urban dictionary)

afaic passing it off as art is not an absolving condition. anyway, there is nothing wrong with not having integrity, its probably so that there does not exist a human with absolute integrity on this planet, nor has there probably ever been. you might find that aside from their project, the members have a respectable amount of integrity. its just not a word that i would ever associate with Die Antwood as an institution.

and i never once said i don't like their product, in fact if you read my posts properly you'd see that i have a similar opinion to yours. i think that their music sucks, but their entertainment value is great.

an intriguing alternative, and its something that occurred to me just now, and its most likely true - what if the whole thing is a massive sarcasm lined satire? he's english as they come, he comes upon a brainwave to portray himself as a 'zef' afrikaaner as he realises that there are still massive holes in afrikaans identity in SA. he uses this motif to derive wealth from the 'zef' South African and their white trash American/(insert nationality here) counterparts, and coetaneously he shows that the majority of the world are a bunch of stupid sheep that are suckers for controversy ? its quite a masterful paradox.

Danny-B

There isn't anything in that definition that wikipedia definition that excludes integrity from Die Antwoord. Now we can't exactly go on an ethics debate, or we'll be here till Thursday ?

makepeace

Danny B wrote There isn't anything in that definition that wikipedia definition that excludes integrity from Die Antwoord. Now we can't exactly go on an ethics debate, or we'll be here till Thursday ?

True about the ethics debate :? .

But as regards the integrity part, you're obvijuicely looking at it from the perspective of Die Antwoord as being a separate entity to the members. What I'm saying is that in the entirety (as a music group and as a collection of humans), Die Antwoord has little integrity. There is no consistency between the actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcomes of the members and their product.

So as I see it, the wiki definition is a perfect summation of their hypocrisy ?

But I think we've taken this off track..

MIKA-the-better-one

I guess where I am getting a bit annoyed in this is that there seems to be the assumption that Die Antwoord are a very mediocre attempted rap group, which does not garner much respect.
The thing is musically it flows really well, and as much as some don't like it they really did capture more of a South African aspect than most SA bands, and marketed that.
You cannot put a mark on success true so maybe my comment saying they are the best export is unqualified. But I do respect them for the fact that they very early saw further than the very small very insular SA market and scene. And I think its hard to push aside that they have done really well overseas, more so than such other attempted breakout bands.
I think they did this through the fact that they offered something good, fresh, unique and edgy, which in my view are all good traits toward a great band.

I had the benefit of being involved in the SA music scene for a few years and in turn got to see a lot of groups, and a lot of over hyped acts which truthfully outside of there scene would be called amateur. The numerous times I saw BLK JKS and DIe Antwoord, both in and out of SA they acted and basically were more than just an SA band they were a standout act.

Danny-B

I think Die Antwoord are an example of performance art, so yes I do think the members are separate from Die Antwoord. Ninja and Yolandi are actors. As discussed earlier in the thread, they are married, have children, and are two very nice people from nice homes. The personas they act out in Die Antwoord are not any sort or reality, and I think integrity does not come into it.

chris77

MIKA the better one wrote .
What Die Antwoord are achieving is representing Afrikaans culture (no matter how hyper escalated) to a world audience.

Now that just might be the biggest pile of BS I have ever read on this Forum, or any other. Being Afrikaans I find it insulting to the utmost that you can consider that "band" as a representation of my culture. Just because the are doing their act in Afrikaans doesn't make it representative of anything other than their own created, scripted, vulgar and overdone image.

MIKA-the-better-one

Hate to say it man but that's how I and many others see it.
They do more than just sing in Afrikaans they mimic it, parody it, dress like it, include it in their videos and to a large public make it look kind of cool.

[deleted]

I like his fishy waistcoat....IMO

makepeace

they mimic (or rather portray their interpretation of) low-class afrikaans people. this is partly why low-class american people find them attractive.

i'm hoping that that is what you meant, if so - don't leave yourself so open to misinterpretation. if not, i'm sorry. :-[

vic

MIKA the better one wrote Hate to say it man but that's how I and many others see it.
They do more than just sing in Afrikaans they mimic it, parody it, dress like it, include it in their videos and to a large public make it look kind of cool.

Something like these people ?....pic taken in Philadelphia USA . These people are Americans.

There is currently a musical on your circuit....."The Great American Trailer Park" ....go check it out ?

The very popular Jerry Springer show is also still running there.... ?

MIKA-the-better-one

Yes exactly like that.
There is definitely a lot of fun to poke at the lower, middle, hell even upper class of the USA. And there are a lot of Artists who do it, I am not offended by it in anyway. Sorry to some who are a little more easily offended by that.

America has countless talk shows that function on that fact that Americans are dumb, ignorant and moronic. SO really I would not be so offended if I say that DIe Antwoord take some pretty funny parts of the Afrikaans culture and capitalize on them in their music.

Die Antwoord make a joke out of low class, and high class, SA and America, I think that's one of the things about them that some like no issue or line is drawn as "to far". Maybe thats also why I see them as not selling themselves short or "selling out"

deefstes

MIKA the better one wrote Yes exactly like that.
There is definitely a lot of fun to poke at the lower, middle, hell even upper class of the USA. And there are a lot of Artists who do it, I am not offended by it in anyway. Sorry to some who are a little more easily offended by that.

America has countless talk shows that function on that fact that Americans are dumb, ignorant and moronic. SO really I would not be so offended if I say that DIe Antwoord take some pretty funny parts of the Afrikaans culture and capitalize on them in their music.

Die Antwoord make a joke out of low class, and high class, SA and America, I think that's one of the things about them that some like no issue or line is drawn as "to far". Maybe thats also why I see them as not selling themselves short or "selling out"

MIKA, you're a cool dude and I've enjoyed your posts to these forums for the most part but I have to be honest with you bro, you are busy getting me extremely upset here.

Let me put it very clear to you. Die Antwoord DOES NOT represent Afrikaans culture! Full stop. What they are portraying could be called "zef" or simply "lower class" but it has absolutely nothing to do with Afrikaans culture. The fact that they chose the Afrikaans language to portray what they do, doesn't make their portrayals any more representative of the Afrikaans culture than it would have been of the Russian culture if they had chosen to do exactly the same thing, but rap in Russian. Similarly, if they had filmed videos of wellborn individuals gently sipping tea on the terraces of a Surrey homestead, while speaking Afrikaans, it would also not represent Afrikaans culture.

To suggest that what they're portraying is representative of Afrikaans culture not only displays a complete lack of understanding of Afrikaans culture but it is also an insult to those of us who are Afrikaans and who take any sort of pride in our culture. I do take exception to that suggestion and I also don't take well to being insulted and then in the same sentence being told "I would not be so offended if I were you".

makepeace

Viccy wrote I like his fishy waistcoat....IMO

Yeah! I also thought it was rather spiffy..

vic

The ONLY reason why this group does their thing in Afrikaans is that they, like so many others before them over the last few years, got onto the Afrikaans music bandwagon....to be noticed, and hopefully make a bit of money. Jack Parow and Prophets of the City did more or less what they are doing (but in a more civilized and tasteful manner) at least a year earlier.
Waddy Jones is a calculated opportunist.

Nitebob

As I understood it, Polisiekar, Die Antwoord and Heuwels fantasties were all intertwined. I must say however I find Heuwels fantasties a lot less revolting. I will never buy a cd of theirs, but I also don't change the channel when I hear a song of theirs...

Hammeron

Starting to hit the nail on the head.
These guys are more like 2 actors presenting a visual art
Now, this forum does have an 'off topic lounge' which allows for the discussion of any topic not necessarily related to music.
It also bans discussions on religion and politics and. I am sure that anything remotely pornographic would, or should, be frowned upon.
It's a bit like discussing Auschwitz on www.visitsunnyisrael.com, It seems out of place.
Just a thought.

Psean

Hammeron wrote It's a bit like discussing Auschwitz on www.visitsunnyisrael.com, It seems out of place.
Just a thought.

:roflmao: Love it!

chris77

Nitebob wrote As I understood it, Polisiekar, Die Antwoord and Heuwels fantasties were all intertwined. I must say however I find Heuwels fantasties a lot less revolting. I will never buy a cd of theirs, but I also don't change the channel when I hear a song of theirs...

Naah, it's fokofpolisiekar, heuwels fantasties and van coke kartel who are intertwined. Jack Parrow is a mate of theirs as well, but die anwoord is a whole seperate entity.

makepeace

As far as I'm aware there is zero relation between Die Antwoord and the other two.

Also, IMO, Fokof is probably the most relevant South African band of the last decade. And I wouldn't be as dismissive as to put Fokof and Die Antwoord in the same revolting basket, so I disagree with you there.

Fokof's music is incredibly well written and is of a global standard as far as I'm concerned (this is talking musically and lyrically). It's just unfortunate that the members are their own worst enemies, in terms of the traditional definitions of success at least.. However, I do not believe that it was their intention to become a world famous band. Their intention was to give the SA Afrikaans youth culture some perspective and a bit of a kick start in defining their identities, and they've done pretty well at that whilst managing to keep themselves alive.

I don't know what type of music you're into, but I'd say that anyone that is South African should give Fokof a chance, or at least watch the documentary. Its actually quite enriching and gives another perspective on life in South Africa.

Oh, and the religious stuff (if thats what you're referring to as revolting) - try not to take it too personally. These guys are not the devil. They are just vehement in expressing their viewpoint, which they are entitled to be. <-- this is not intended as a catalyst for religious discussion. carry on.

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