PeachyDragon
IceCreamMan wrote:
I likeeeee ..i wont buyeeee but i likeeee
an i think Yo-Landi is hawt ....(but not in that pic)
she finds me freeky and she likes me a lot .....
Apparently I was in high school with her... it's not her real name of course.
Wikipedia will confirm that. I didn't know her but friends of mine knew her very well.
So she has to go around with a shaved head just so she can put on the mullet wig?
Malkav
Viccy wrote:
So, the "Butcher Boys"/ Ten$ion video is being pulled. There's obviously quite a lot of intellectual property of other artists that they use, but this one was quite obvious. I think Jane Alexander is being quite big about it:
To be honest I don't really get how the Butcher Boys reflects anything more than Ms Alexander's desire to make cool looking monsters, I like it, reminds me of:
Well it reminds me of the movie at least in it's general sort of aesthetic, I just think the Pale Man is cool ?
singemonkey wrote:
Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I hadn't heard of her work until after seeing Die Antwoord vid. Still, things may look different from her point of view and I respect that.
Honestly I think that the Die Antwoord video looks nothing like her work, they look more like an evil version of the creatures in Avatar or those canibal baby aliens from Space Quest really, or even the Gremlins from the Gremlins movies, or Dark Elves from just about every Dungeons & Dragons game or the creature from Splice...
Galaxy quest aliens
Gremlin
Dark Elf
Splice creature
Ultimately I just think that their work doesn't resemble her work closely enough to warrant what she's claiming, admitedly my above examples do look fairly different in some ways but I imagine it would be pretty easy to come close to something that looks similar to Die Antwoord's video if you mashed together certain aspects of each.
PeachyDragon
RuanR wrote:
"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Attributed to Peter the Hermit, AD 1274
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC
"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect
their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently
inhabit taverns and have no self control."
Inscription, 6000 year-old Egyptian tomb
+1 !!!
In Visual culture we were taught that this is a recurring opinion every generation has. I mean.. look at the hippies... they certainly were Sunday school children weren't they? and then look at the peasants in the middle ages... I'm sure they never did anything rude. ?
Malkav
Okay having actually seen the preview now, Ms Alexander had it pulled from Youtube, I will admit the guy does resemble the first monster from the Butcher Boys sculpture, or Gerald as I have decided he should be known. The two girls totally look like Avatar creatures mixed with Dark Elves though or something out of the artwork of Quake I...
Jack-Flash-Jr
Chad Adam Browne wrote:
Okay having actually seen the preview now, Ms Alexander had it pulled from Youtube, I will admit the guy does resemble the first monster from the Butcher Boys sculpture, or Gerald as I have decided he should be known. The two girls totally look like Avatar creatures mixed with Dark Elves though or something out of the artwork of Quake I...
:roflmao:
Hammeron
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Warren wrote:
You can post a vid of Guthrie playing Waves and, well, it's astonishingly good. What is there to say, really?
Yup. With the good artists, the music does all the speaking...
Exactly the point. Eddie Vedder is enormously entertaining hopping around a stage in a plaid shirt and blue jeans for hours on end, because it is the musicality of the man and his band that does the entertaining.
Die Antwoord is more like a pantomime with the entertainment relying more on the visual than the 'music'.
I'd bet 98% of the crowd at an Antwoord show wouldn't know what a musical instrument was if it came up and bit them on the arse.
So, as a musician, I tend to the former.
Nothing wrong with a good video and some good lighting and pyro to bolster good music tho, mind you.
Malkav
So I was thinking about Butcher Boys and I realised that now that apartheid is over the message about the dehumanising effects of it (If that is in fact even her real intention ?) may be lost on the younger generations who never experienced it, such as myself, so in an effort to help make Butcher Boys relevant again I have come up with this...
Apologies for the bad paint skills :-[
singemonkey
Careful, Chad. Can you afford the legal fees? ?
Tamla, you're part right about Die Antwoord. The visual is an integral part of what they do. The film-making is an integral part of what they do. Their work is a combination of factors which are not merely about promotion - as they are in many bands.
But it isn't one thing or another. It's everything. The music, the dance, the dress, the video making, the lyrics. No one part is what they're actually selling. It's the whole package.
PeachyDragon
X-rated Bob wrote:
majestikc wrote:
Die Antwoord is just this other piece of fine south african art: = mixed with some cheesy dance-beetz
Ummmm..... Corné and Twakkie were pretty sharp. Just because something's not highbrow doesn't mean that there's no craft or intelligence involved. The Simpsons is a good example.
+1
Bob-Dubery
It's an interesting matter. For me it's about the grey area in between taking inspiration from something or somebody and outright plagiarism. I'm not inclined to get on too high a horse about it, because most musicians borrow or recycle to some degree (deliberately or not).
Jane Alexander: I'd guess she had to do it. Let one person copy part of your work and you lose the ability to protest if others do likewise. If they come to you and seek your permission and your blessing then that's a different matter because you're still in control and they are acknowledging you and your ownership of the work.
It's also possible that Die Antwoord didn't knowingly copy from her work. They may have just given a vague brief to the film crew, arrived for the shoot and were told "here, put this on." Maybe the makeup guy was the plagiarist.
I'm uncomfortable, personally, with something I'm seeing increasingly on GFSA where criticism of some band or other is justified by the critic claiming "musician" status for themselves. That seems a bit narrow to me, and also a bit insulting - if I form another opinion then am I not a "musician"?
And can only "musicians" understand and opine music? Is it necessary to be able to paint before you can go to an art gallery and start voicing your opinions of what is hanging on the wall?
PeachyDragon
Firstly, I love Chad's commentary with the speech bubbles on the sculpture. ?
I'm going to answer a question with a question. I agree with what many people said about how raising children is the responsibility of the parent. Can we point fingers at Die Antwoord for destroying the moral fibre of our youth? My opinion of "evil" has changed quite a lot in recent years. Since I've gotten out of companies and started working for myself successfully I have (inadvertently) worked with scam artist who have no issues with scamming pensioners and investors out of millions (sometimes semi-legally by simply liquidating after investors pay a company the owner they never intended to run properly). Then we also have people with power who abuse their power and waste other people's money (And no I don't mean only politically - I know the forum rules. ? ) Lastly, if you realise what some companies who pay billions in bonuses pay their workers who are away from their family in the worst conditions... it makes you think... So I seriously don't know if I would classify Die Antwoord's corruptive influence on the world as some kind of scary "evil" force. There are worse things to protest about.
I mean, these evil examples above probably weren't influenced by vile music... they probably had good schooling and possibly poor parenting... Same goes for the violent criminals of South Africa... I don't think music lyrics are triggering them... I think poor parenting and education are.
For instance, on a lighter note, we could accuse GFSA of weakening the economy by keeping so many people out of their work all morning. Or is that just me? :roflmao:
Malkav
X-rated Bob wrote:
It's also possible that Die Antwoord didn't knowingly copy from her work. They may have just given a vague brief to the film crew, arrived for the shoot and were told "here, put this on." Maybe the makeup guy was the plagiarist.
I read an article this morning in the newspaper where they claim they were fully aware of it and wanted to pay homage to one of their favourite SA artists. Apparently Ms Alexander is friends with the band and a lyric in their song "enter the ninja" was actually inspired from a phone conversation that was had between "ninja" and her. They also apologised profusely to her and immediately pulled the video of youtube stating that it was never their intention to offend or degrade Ms Alexander or her art.
Warren
X-rated Bob wrote:
I'm uncomfortable, personally, with something I'm seeing increasingly on GFSA where criticism of some band or other is justified by the critic claiming "musician" status for themselves. That seems a bit narrow to me, and also a bit insulting - if I form another opinion then am I not a "musician"?
And can only "musicians" understand and opine music? Is it necessary to be able to paint before you can go to an art gallery and start voicing your opinions of what is hanging on the wall?
I don't think that's a new argument. Even jazz is pretty much music for musicians, mostly by very accomplished musicians. That doesn't preclude Joe Average from listening to and enjoying it, and clearly there are many devoted jazz fans who know nothing of music theory and are not musicians themselves.
But, there can't be much doubt that being an artist influences how you perceive other art. Writers will appreciate subtlety and imagery in other works that they themselves envy, whereas somebody else might just enjoy a good story.
@Tamla
Part of the whole thrust of the Grunge movement (especially with Pearl Jam and Nirvana) was an inherent sort of protest against the whole permed hair / spandex / glam type of imagery associated with Rock music. And now ironically, the dirty jeans / faded T-shirt image is maybe the most widely adopted "uniform" of rock music everywhere. Pearl Jam was definitely more about the music than Die Antwoord are, but they weren't
completely about the music after all. That whole "rock anti-hero" thing really took off. ?
Hammeron
@ Bob
I'm not 'claiming' to be one, I am one and so are you and most every other active member on this forum...whether we like it or not, B,I or A.
I am not fond of Elton John but I recognize the musical genius that he is likewise with Sting or Peter gabriel, and I think that I can have a more informed opinion of them simply because I am a musician.
However, in no way is it a pre-requisite, of course.
singemonkey
I read the article too. The past friendship alleged by Ninja makes me unable to avoid wondering if this is collusion for mutual publicity - it would be an excellent way to get some newspaper attention in The States, dontchathink? It also made me realise that I've seen the sculptures in person at the SA National Gallery ? Dunno how I erased that from my brain.
[deleted]
@ Chad...that is EXACTLY how I see it, but don't tell Jane Alexander that.
@ Jackflash, it's been in Iziko since 1999
Dudes, I mentioned the striking resemblance to the Butcher Boys AGES back in the thread. It's OBVIOUS. I love the various themes and interpretations that that piece of art gives life to (an exterior depiction of the interior person being one), THAT'S WHY IT'S SO GOOOOD. A little nod in her direction would have been nice, that's all.
Warren
Viccy wrote:
Dudes, I mentioned the striking resemblance to the Butcher Boys AGES back in the thread. It's OBVIOUS. I love the various themes and interpretations that that piece of art gives life to (an exterior depiction of the interior person being one), THAT'S WHY IT'S SO GOOOOD. A little nod in her direction would have been nice, that's all.
I think the grand total of people who made that "obvious" connection was 1 ?
Jack-Flash-Jr
Warren wrote:
Viccy wrote:
Dudes, I mentioned the striking resemblance to the Butcher Boys AGES back in the thread. It's OBVIOUS. I love the various themes and interpretations that that piece of art gives life to (an exterior depiction of the interior person being one), THAT'S WHY IT'S SO GOOOOD. A little nod in her direction would have been nice, that's all.
I think the grand total of people who made that "obvious" connection was 1 ?
Make it 2 but I didn't think the acknowledgement is necessary really... that piece is virtually public domain imho ?
No Mieliepap Pieta in sight but maybe they're saving that for the next vid!
Jack-Flash-Jr
For kicks, Canadian live review:
South Africa’s Die Antwoord: rowdy rappers but sweet, too
j.d. considine
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2012 2:15PM EST
Last updated Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2012 2:24PM EST
South Africa’s Die Antwoord is reputedly the most controversial group in rap at the moment, a statement that speaks volumes about how much the genre has mellowed since the days of N.W.A. The trio brought its act to Toronto on Tuesday, playing a sweaty, sold-out show that leavened its attitude with a surprising amount of uplift.
They bad
Die Antwoord released their latest album, Ten$ion, a week ago, after having been dropped by Interscope records for insisting that the first single be a tune whose title is an Afrikaans obscenity.
Judging from the shout-alongs, the young, heavily male crowd at the Phoenix – a group whose taste tended more to metal T-shirts and the occasional mohawk than hip-hop togs – had already committed much of the album to memory. Whether this cheered the group is hard to say, as tattooed front man Ninja wore a perpetual scowl through the performance, while the muscular DJ Hi-Tek hid his expression behind a vaguely simian mask.
Brought to you by the letter ‘F’
Whether in English or Afrikaans, the members of Die Antwoord love to swear. Ninja and his pixie-voiced sidekick, Yo-Landi Vi$$er, toss the F-word around as casually as teenage girls say “like,” while DJ Hi-Tek, who started the show with DJ Hi-Tek Rulez, articulated his toughness through an unquotable menu of the various ways in which he (or his beats) would violate the listener.
Still, it was hard to get upset by the profanity. Some of it was mere peacock strutting, tough talk for the sake of seeming macho, but mostly it was used for rhythmic emphasis, to lend the raps a verbal kick equivalent to Hi-Tek’s bass-heavy grooves.
Drop that bass
Rap has emphasized the bowel-vibrating power of deep bass since Afrika Bambaataa discovered the Roland 808 drum machine in the early 1980s. Die Antwoord’s sound is similarly bass-heavy, but the beats tend to be faster and less funky than most rap, which puts the group’s sound closer to techno or dubstep than to mainstream hip hop.
At times, as during Baby’s on Fire, Ninja and Yo-Landi underscore the similarity to techno by offering club-style vocal melodies; elsewhere, as on the drum-driven Fatty Boom Boom, they emphasize the rhythmic momentum of the track with rapid-fire rhymes and machine-gun delivery that, even when it obscured the words, increased the music’s impact.
Sexy and they know it
As their F-nocentric lyrics reflect, Die Antwoord like to rap about sex. Ninja – who stripped down to his Dark Side of the Moon silk boxers for the last few numbers – does so in classic hip-hop style, equating virility not only with sexual prowess but also with general alpha male-ness.
Vi$$er, by contrast, treated sexiness as currency, a dialectic she offered both as criticism, on the booty-wagging Rich Bitch, and celebration, as with the breathlessly horny I Fink U Freaky. But where Ninja and Hi-Tek spent most of the set shirtless, Yo-Landi sported her hot-pants and cropped top only when lyrically appropriate; by the show’s end, she was sporting a modest, dress-sized T.
Maybe not so bad
Die Antwoord closed the show with Never Le Nkemise, Pt. 2, which found Ninja insisting, “We make our own rules. We answer to no one. We keep it gangsta.”
If so, they’re pretty sweet for gangstas. When a scuffle broke out during Wat Kyk Jy?, Ninja asked if everyone was all right, then added, un-ironically, “You guys kiss and say, ‘I’m sorry.’” And when Yo-Landi bade the crowd farewell by chirping, “Toronto – be happy!” it didn’t undercut the tough-talk so much as remind us that this was, after all, entertainment. And given the quality of the performance, it would be safe to say that most of the crowd did, in fact, leave happy.
AlanRatcliffe
"F-nocentric lyrics" - great phrase!
