Odd article about LP's all being chambered

PeachyDragon

I was researching online again to decide about the features of
my custom guitar being made soon.

I found this bizarre article about how Gibson and PRS chamber most
of their guitars to relieve weight and how much that sux.
Article here: http://heritageguitarfan.com/articlepages/chambering.html

Does this guy just sound like a loon?
What do you guys think?

Werner-Carstens

I for one wish that I could have my LP Deluxe chambered. I stopped using it live due to the weight (my chiropractor started earning all my gig money) which is so sad cause it sounds phenomenal. I am not sure what the impact will be on the sound though. Sadly my LP is only getting recording time now so for me chambering makes a lot of sense.

PeachyDragon

Pinch wrote: I for one wish that I could have my LP Deluxe chambered. I stopped using it live due to the weight (my chiropractor started earning all my gig money) which is so sad cause it sounds phenomenal. I am not sure what the impact will be on the sound though. Sadly my LP is only getting recording time now so for me chambering makes a lot of sense.

From what I've read and heard the tone is almost identical. For death metal I would prefer solid body but
lately I'm more into just having a sound I like and a more natural earthy sound is fine by me.
They are very similar but in some cases you can hear the body resonance more in a chambered body.
It's almost like the difference between a Seymour Duncan JB and an Alnico II Pro both in the bridge
position. Only less extreme than that.?

PeachyDragon

Here's a great video that really shows a big difference
in tone I wasn't expecting and haven't heard in previous comparisons.

I luuuuuurv me that chambered sound personally.
It's the same reason I play 12 inch speakers and a Vox and use pickups with less bite.

=

Tokai-SA

PeachyDragon wrote: I was researching online again to decide about the features of
my custom guitar being made soon.

I found this bizarre article about how Gibson and PRS chamber most
of their guitars to relieve weight and how much that sux.
Article here: http://heritageguitarfan.com/articlepages/chambering.html

Does this guy just sound like a loon?
What do you guys think?

I'm not sure what you're asking?
Are you asking whether some Gibson Les Pauls are chambered?
Yes, since 2002, all Gibson Les Paul Standards are chambered....everyone knows that, it's not news.
Custom Shop Les Pauls are solid.

PeachyDragon

Tokai SA wrote:
PeachyDragon wrote: I was researching online again to decide about the features of
my custom guitar being made soon.

I found this bizarre article about how Gibson and PRS chamber most
of their guitars to relieve weight and how much that sux.
Article here: http://heritageguitarfan.com/articlepages/chambering.html

Does this guy just sound like a loon?
What do you guys think?
I'm not sure what you're asking?
Are you asking whether some Gibson Les Pauls are chambered?
Yes, since 2002, all Gibson Les Paul Standards are chambered.
Custom Shop Les Pauls are solid.

I thought it was a rare feature. I bet Epiphones aren't chambered. bought my Epiphone black beauty around 2005 and
it weighs 4.4 kg. which sounds like nothing but compared to anything I own it's darn heavy and I own about 6 guitars

Hammeron

PeachyDragon wrote:
Pinch wrote: I for one wish that I could have my LP Deluxe chambered. I stopped using it live due to the weight (my chiropractor started earning all my gig money) which is so sad cause it sounds phenomenal. I am not sure what the impact will be on the sound though. Sadly my LP is only getting recording time now so for me chambering makes a lot of sense.
From what I've read and heard the tone is almost identical. For death metal I would prefer solid body but
lately I'm more into just having a sound I like and a more natural earthy sound is fine by me.
They are very similar but in some cases you can hear the body resonance more in a chambered body.
It's almost like the difference between a Seymour Duncan JB and an Alnico II Pro both in the bridge
position. Only less extreme than that.?

Mmmmm...if you were playing Death Metal why on earth want an LP in the first place????..... ???

PeachyDragon

Tamla Kahn 'Hammeron' McMahon wrote:
Mmmmm...if you were playing Death Metal why on earth want an LP in the first place????..... ???

Lol, good point. I just mean that with major distortion the chambered body guitars will get muffled and have less attack.

Gearhead

Any muffling and attack have nothing to do with distortion, I reckon you're going to hear less of a difference the more drive you use. Drive creates harmonics whick obscures the effect that you have less sustain in the harmonics. The amount and pattern of chambering will have an effect on how different the tone is from unchambered; check the Warmoth site to see how they rout Strats etc. In general the large single chamber does affect tone and feedback towards ES type bodies, but the many smaller chambers do not - providing they allow the natural resonance of the body.
The other thing to keep in mind is that light unchamered Les Pauls have always sounded better than the heavy ones. Most gurus seem to agree that this has to do with the resonance in the wood itself, the lighter mahogany basically is supposed to resonate better. The same apparently holds true for Ash Teles btw.

singemonkey

There is definitely a difference in tone from chambering. But saying that, it's not dramatic, and it doesn't mean the guitar sounds bad. The only Gibson USA model that isn't chambered is the Les Paul Traditional which has the "swiss-cheese" weight relief holes instead.

But if you want an all-solid Les Paul, you're bang out of luck in the Gibson USA range. Gibson custom shop if you've got the dineros will give you that original '50s LP tone. Tokai gives you solid Les Pauls at modest weights for even less than Gibson USA.

Solid Les Pauls are really chunky, but they don't have to be back-breaking. Gibson USA started using very poor grade mahogany in the early '70s that caused many (but not all) of their guitars to be monstrously heavy. They still use this stuff, to save costs, but weight relieve or chamber to ensure reasonable weights (in the case of chambered models, many are far lighter than the lightest of the '50s LPs).

Gibson Custom Shop and Tokai make sure that the mahogany they use keeps the guitars at a reasonable weight despite being solid - within the weight range of '50s LPs. The most expensive Custom Shop guitars - such as the 1959 reissue, use choice mahogany that ensures that these guitars tend to weigh on the light extreme of the original '50s weight range.

The main objection to chambering is, "why fix what isn't broken?" The solid backed Les Pauls from the '50s have a tone that is legendary. Chambered Les Pauls came too late to add their stamp to history, and many want that original tone. But it comes down to preference.

PeachyDragon

Gearhead wrote: Any muffling and attack have nothing to do with distortion, I reckon you're going to hear less of a difference the more drive you use. Drive creates harmonics whick obscures the effect that you have less sustain in the harmonics. The amount and pattern of chambering will have an effect on how different the tone is from unchambered; check the Warmoth site to see how they rout Strats etc. In general the large single chamber does affect tone and feedback towards ES type bodies, but the many smaller chambers do not - providing they allow the natural resonance of the body.
The other thing to keep in mind is that light unchamered Les Pauls have always sounded better than the heavy ones. Most gurus seem to agree that this has to do with the resonance in the wood itself, the lighter mahogany basically is supposed to resonate better. The same apparently holds true for Ash Teles btw.

I thought about this and it doesn't make sense... If this is true a steel string acoustic with Super Metal Zone death metal crunch distortion will sound the same as a ...metal guitar?... BC Rich death eater? uhm (Ask Tamla to insert name of death metal guitar) with the same distortion added. Metal players are very fussy about their distortion. For that matter, a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge position will not sound the same as an Alnico II pro no matter how much distortion it has.

AlanRatcliffe

Yes, you lose some sustain, which isn't a problem, but you gain some resonance too. That translates to more complex clean tones (and a more vibrant feeling guitar), but less focus and a mushier attack on the driven sounds. So if you're a jazzer/blueser, you'll probably like the chambering or weight relief. Not so much if you are laying down the Br00talZ...

PeachyDragon

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Yes, you lose some sustain, which isn't a problem, but you gain some resonance too. That translates to more complex clean tones (and a more vibrant feeling guitar), but less focus and a mushier attack on the driven sounds. So if you're a jazzer/blueser, you'll probably like the chambering or weight relief. Not so much if you are laying down the Br00talZ...

That makes sense. I read that the reason people think that a Chambered guitar has more sustain
is that the note can be heard for longer because of added resonance and volume, therefore creating the illusion of more sustain.
Scientifically the sustain is apparently less when measured.

dee

Tamla Kahn 'Hammeron' McMahon wrote:
PeachyDragon wrote:
Pinch wrote: I for one wish that I could have my LP Deluxe chambered. I stopped using it live due to the weight (my chiropractor started earning all my gig money) which is so sad cause it sounds phenomenal. I am not sure what the impact will be on the sound though. Sadly my LP is only getting recording time now so for me chambering makes a lot of sense.
From what I've read and heard the tone is almost identical. For death metal I would prefer solid body but
lately I'm more into just having a sound I like and a more natural earthy sound is fine by me.
They are very similar but in some cases you can hear the body resonance more in a chambered body.
It's almost like the difference between a Seymour Duncan JB and an Alnico II Pro both in the bridge
position. Only less extreme than that.?
Mmmmm...if you were playing Death Metal why on earth want an LP in the first place????..... ???

Lots and lots of DM guitarists use LP's.

Be careful you are not dragged into the "You can't use an 'X' for 'Y' argument"

PeachyDragon

dee wrote: Be careful you are not dragged into the "You can't use an 'X' for 'Y' argument"

Yeah, Makes sense. Drop in some active pickups or just play with an EQ pedal.
a 7 band EQ can do AMAZING things to a guitar's tone.

Malkav

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Not so much if you are laying down the Br00talZ...

I'd say the biggest issue with making heavy tones on a Les Paul is actually the scale length though, afterall Animals As Leaders and Periphery have both made jaw droppingly heavy tones using hollowbodies, A Strandberg in the case of AAL and a Carvin Holdsworth fatboy in the case of Periphery.

AlanRatcliffe

PeachyDragon wrote: a 7 band EQ can do AMAZING things to a guitar's tone.

I have yet to hear a pedal EQ that does more good than damage to a guitar tone.

PeachyDragon

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
PeachyDragon wrote: a 7 band EQ can do AMAZING things to a guitar's tone.
I have yet to hear a pedal EQ that does more good than damage to a guitar tone.

Do you mean because of the way the user sets it or just simply by being in the signal path?

Gearhead

Because 99% of graphic equalisers have serious phase issues - try to design a single channel for half an octave and you'll quickly see why. Digital eq really is at an advantage.

PeachyDragon

Gearhead wrote: Because 99% of graphic equalisers have serious phase issues - try to design a single channel for half an octave and you'll quickly see why. Digital eq really is at an advantage.

Wow, this is disturbing news indeed... but if I AB the tone one bypass versus EQ and the EQ sounds better I guess I'm pleased.