Barre

Nitebob · 2012-01-04T10:46:14+00:00

Hi all, I have become a little obsessive about these, since somebody made a single comment on a post where I struggled with chords. The comment was "get to grips with barre chords' Since then I've been looking at them a lot and seeing that you can play majors, minors, 7ths and minor 7ths, with basically one structure (E based) got me wondering. Is there any acoustic players on this site that play predominantly barre's? I mean with these 4 catagories above mentioned, you should be able to play most songs, shouldn't you? I know playing barre chords is often 'frowned upon' but nobody can give me a valid reason why... I even heard some people say, that playing barre chords isn't 'really' playing guitar....I mean, WHAT THE FLAGNOD? Is it making the right noise or not?

domhatch

deefstes wrote You've almost earned yourself a set of elixirs there. ?

that's just how i make sense of it. i try to think musically when in a musical space, and, y'know, it kinda works. mostly. ?

DonovanB

The word top implies physical, not musical. the word High, implies musical.

I understand why you say Top could mean high, but to my simple brain there is a top string and a bottom string. There is a high E and a Low E. the words top and bottom can mean either, that is why its confusing.

deefstes

Donovan Banks wrote The word top implies physical, not musical. the word High, implies musical.

I understand why you say Top could mean high, but to my simple brain there is a top string and a bottom string. There is a high E and a Low E. the words top and bottom can mean either, that is why its confusing.

Oh bother! No you've robbed Dom of his elixirs.

Nitebob

The tops and bottoms have hijacked my thread :-\

evolucian

Fair enough... but speaking worldwide here... if you say bottom string, people are going to use the low E. If they say top string - they'll use high E.

In guitar, the "physical" is also the "musical". I doubt if you say "play the bottom one" to a pianist that they're going to ask "Well, which of my three pedals are you referring to?" Nope, they'll play the bass note.

Which brings us to guitar again, bottom is bass and top is treble. Bottom is synonymous with low... as well as with ass but we're not there yet. Put a B with ass and it all makes sense...

This instrument is not a 5 string banjo. Now that's hillbilly for ya.

DonovanB

But a pianer is level. If you tell him to play the right note he'll play the highest... ?

But a guitar is laid out horizontally and vertically. That is why the words "top" and "bottom" are confusing when referring to strings.

You're all speaking in terms of how I am "supposed" to interpret it, the real problem here is that its open to interpretation.

deefstes

Donovan Banks wrote But a guitar is laid out horizontally and vertically. That is why the words "top" and "bottom" are confusing when referring to strings.

Only if you're boring and you're standing upright, or sitting, while playing it. Of course, if were a real rocker you'd be playing it upside down behind your head or lying flat on your back on the stage (or the crowd). Now tell me which string is top and which strign is bottom? ?

Bob-Dubery

Donovan Banks wrote But a pianer is level. If you tell him to play the right note he'll play the highest... ?

But a guitar is laid out horizontally and vertically. That is why the words "top" and "bottom" are confusing when referring to strings.

You're all speaking in terms of how I am "supposed" to interpret it, the real problem here is that its open to interpretation.

I know a bloke who plays left-handed on a guitar strung for a right-handed player.

The only sensible way to use "up", "top" and "high" on the one hand and "down", "bottom" and "low" on the other, with respect to music and instruments is in terms of pitch. Any other usage is so relative that it will be ambiguous and potentially confusing.

Nitebob

Amazing...you start a thread on Barre chords and it ends about where 'top E' is...Going to start one on how acoustic and electric guitar playing differs, and it'll end on where middle c is on a piano and why... :woohoo:

DonovanB

I asked my wife, she comes from a musical family and she interpreted it in terms of pitch as well. :-[

I've been involved with engineers for waaaaay too long.

singemonkey

A weird note is that blues and blues rock players often fake the barre without having to change hand positions by using their thumbs to fret the 6th string and using partial barres with other fingers. The only advantage over a traditional barre is that you don't have to flip your hand under when you play thumb over the top blues style. If you don't already play that style, as fast, technical players should never do, it's worse than useless.

Hendrix is a good example of someone who never - to my recollection - ever played traditional barres.

domhatch

deefstes wrote
Donovan Banks wrote But a guitar is laid out horizontally and vertically. That is why the words "top" and "bottom" are confusing when referring to strings.
Only if you're boring and you're standing upright, or sitting, while playing it. Of course, if were a real rocker you'd be playing it upside down behind your head or lying flat on your back on the stage (or the crowd). Now tell me which string is top and which strign is bottom? ?

where would you like your elixirs delivered?

Nitebob

domhatch wrote
deefstes wrote
Donovan Banks wrote But a guitar is laid out horizontally and vertically. That is why the words "top" and "bottom" are confusing when referring to strings.
Only if you're boring and you're standing upright, or sitting, while playing it. Of course, if were a real rocker you'd be playing it upside down behind your head or lying flat on your back on the stage (or the crowd). Now tell me which string is top and which strign is bottom? ?
where would you like your elixirs delivered?

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

evolucian

singemonkey wrote A weird note is that blues and blues rock players often fake the barre without having to change hand positions by using their thumbs to fret the 6th string and using partial barres with other fingers. The only advantage over a traditional barre is that you don't have to flip your hand under when you play thumb over the top blues style. If you don't already play that style, as fast, technical players should never do, it's worse than useless.

Hendrix is a good example of someone who never - to my recollection - ever played traditional barres.

But.. but.. but... that's a different topic altogether ?

Fast technical players.... yeah... who needs em when you can have class with the thumb. I will say this much... it's sometimes tiring flipping back and forth throughout one of them complex songs. So much so that my thumb get's tired being behind the neck now... sigh.

singemonkey

I've decided now - along the same lines as deciding to use a pick for everything, including fingerpicking and slide - to use my thumb over the top always. Getting the A shape barre down has proved a little tricky. But I reasoned that if Jimmy Page can do it, then so can I (of course like this it's impossible to sound the 6th string, but that's not often a problem). What it does is prevent all the flipping.

I may have to change my ways if I try my hand at classical or jazz again. But for everything else I do, it's possible to do it with the thumb over, and then I never have to change between chords or between lead playing and chords.

One exception: blues shuffles up the neck (Johnny B. Good rhythm style) where you simply can't get the stretch without shifting the thumb back.

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote Hendrix is a good example of someone who never - to my recollection - ever played traditional barres.

Looking at the pictures of Jimi it seems that either his guitars had eensy weensy necks or he had big hands.

deefstes

singemonkey wrote I've decided now... to use my thumb over the top always.... What it does is prevent all the flipping.

Could you explain what this "flipping" or "switching" is that you're talking about please? I have steadfastly refused to adopt the thumb over the top fretting simply because I was taught when I first learned guitar (nylon) that your thumb should not even show over the top of the neck. This has just stuck with me and, while I most certainly have it all wrong as far as electric is concerned, I can't help but to always try to keep that thumb down.

singemonkey wrote One exception: blues shuffles up the neck (Johnny B. Good rhythm style) where you simply can't get the stretch without shifting the thumb back.

Sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to explain again please. Maybe it's just that I'm not familiar enough with the thumb barring that I don't understand what you mean but I'd appreciate if you could elaborate a bit.

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote
singemonkey wrote I've decided now... to use my thumb over the top always.... What it does is prevent all the flipping.
Could you explain what this "flipping" or "switching" is that you're talking about please? I have steadfastly refused to adopt the thumb over the top fretting simply because I was taught when I first learned guitar (nylon) that your thumb should not even show over the top of the neck. This has just stuck with me and, while I most certainly have it all wrong as far as electric is concerned, I can't help but to always try to keep that thumb down.

This is one of many points on which experts cannot agree. When I started in lessons in 20whatever my teacher (Lawrence) told me that he NEVER wanted to see my thumb unless he was watching me from the back, and then he never wanted it to go past the middle of the neck. Fine... so we work on that basis.

Then Lawrence decides on a career change and I start taking lessons with John van Nierop. Now John plays all kinds of stuff, including a lot of classical pieces which he plays with text book technique. BUT we started doing some fingerstyle blues and ragtime pieces and before long he's telling me "get your thumb over". I go "huh?" and we had a bit of a talk but then he cut things short by telling me that there were some pieces I would not be able to play unless I used the thumb on the 6th string. Turned out Elizabeth Cotten's "Freight Train" was one of them.

There's usually a well considered basis to all the text book technique, but it should be regarded as a foundation and not as a set of commandments.

deefstes

X-rated Bob wrote
singemonkey wrote Hendrix is a good example of someone who never - to my recollection - ever played traditional barres.
Looking at the pictures of Jimi it seems that either his guitars had eensy weensy necks or he had big hands.

I was thinking the same thing. Another one is John Mayer. Look at him enveloping that neck.

X-rated Bob wrote There's usually a well considered basis to all the text book technique, but it should be regarded as a foundation and not as a set of commandments.

I realise that and I'm not even really averse to adjusting my style. It's just that the thumb barre doesn't come naturally because the opposite have been drilled into me when I started out. It's a bit like driving on the right hand side of the road, it just doesn't feel right.

deefstes

And here's Jimi, making the rest of us look pathetic.

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