kp247
They say "once bitten twice shy" but I've fallen into the trap 3 times now!
I keep forgetting that I don't like CTS pots! They're badly made (Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, none are made in the US), the lugs loosen if you apply too much heat with the soldering iron and the carbon track deforms if you just happen to tighten the mounting screw just a little too tight for its liking, making the rotating action more friction-like feeling! So much for CTS pots, and also the ones marketed by DiMarzio, same stuff!
Give me the Japanese pots ANY day! Low friction, lugs never come off, feel is always consistant, heat has no effect on them, and they last and last! OH Yes, and they're CHEAP too, compared to pots that have to be imported from the east via the US! ?
Anyway, just a rant!
Jacquesg4j
I bought some original Fender ones and no problems there! 500 or 250???
GaryMac
From Tom Anderson who knows a bit about guitar building:-
"I gave up on cts years ago. From the time they moved production to Mexico in the early 80's, they got worse and worse at quality control. They could not cotrol end resistance or rotational torque or feel.
I have tried a few of the new bourns metal casing pots, and was not knocked out by their feel enough to dig deeper.
Alpha does a great job at feel and end resistance so we use them. I know some like a stiffer feel, but I prefer the smoother feel."
So if Alpha are good enough for him.......................................
GaryMac
Ray
I ordered a wiring kit from Acme becasue Wizard told me to and they got CTS. I was reading somewhere that some people dont like CTS so I ordered some Bourns from another place just in case. but I swear at this stage I dont know if I'd be able to tell the difference.
AlanRatcliffe
It still very much depends on who is selling them. CTS have a wide range of options and the retailer chooses what they want (often based on the price range they want to sell at).
@Ray - the Acme CTS's are good ones - that's why they cost more than the Stewmac versions. Their Superpots (CTS-made) are still the best in the industry.
I do like the feel of the Alphas, but they never seem to last more than a couple of years. On the other hand, the 500K CTS in my Sanox have been in there going on 15 years and are still going strong.
kp247
Well thanks for the observations so far!
Andre from Tonerider has been trying to get CTS and Bourns pots for a while and he's been talking with them in the US. He told me that the CTS people there have confirmed that ALL of the CTS pots are made in Taiwan, and have been since the 1980's.
I happen to have CTS pots that came out of a Strat from the 1970's and they've got numbers on them with CTS at the end of the number. Hard to see detail since they've been soldered on a few times.
So for me, no more CTS knockoff pots. I love the Japanese pots, you know the type that comes in Ibanez guitars. To me you cannot get better, specifically for guitars. ?
Gearhead
So let me get this straight... you opened a thread to not discuss the topic?
What Alan is saying, is that there are more different types of CTS pots out there than there are cars on the market. So you're basically saying that you don't like Astons since you have only ever seen Austins coming out of Britain. Or don't like Ferrari's for the Fiats also from that area. Porsche, Trabant. Maybe you must then not buy CTS pots, fine :-\
Wizard
I ordered a wiring kit from Acme because Wizard told me to and they got CTS.
Oh dear ...
@Ray - the Acme CTS's are good ones - that's why they cost more than the Stewmac versions. Their Superpots (CTS-made) are still the best in the industry.
Whew ...
singemonkey
Gearhead wrote:
So let me get this straight... you opened a thread to not discuss the topic?
What Alan is saying, is that there are more different types of CTS pots out there than there are cars on the market. So you're basically saying that you don't like Astons since you have only ever seen Austins coming out of Britain. Or don't like Ferrari's for the Fiats also from that area. Porsche, Trabant. Maybe you must then not buy CTS pots, fine :-\
This may help to explain, Gearhead:
Ray
Wizard wrote:
I ordered a wiring kit from Acme because Wizard told me to and they got CTS.
Oh dear ...
@Ray - the Acme CTS's are good ones - that's why they cost more than the Stewmac versions. Their Superpots (CTS-made) are still the best in the industry.
Whew ...
Ja you gotto be careful. I'm fullon into the blamegame hey.
Shoooeee!! The ouens are getting fired up over a bit of pot hey.
kp247
I suppose I'm a gearhead too since I modify and wire scratchplates, install my own pickups, pots and switches etc.
I DO believe that there is a LOT of techno garbage out there, and guitarists are known for wanting the latest this and the next big that etc. Not to even mention the word "vintage" - oops I did! :?
You know what, it's mostly bull****! Half these things are no more than myths and CTS is one of them! It's the people who hype the product and swear by them.
So all my CTS pots are going into the rubbish bin . . . . . . . unless there's a fool out there willing to pay me R135.00 each for my used ones. ?
By the way, there is NO such thing as "good" Achme or StewMac supposedly superpots! It's rubbish, these things all come from the same factory in Taiwan and dealers get their stock through AllParts (the biggest distributor of CTS in the world) It's all just hype!
I've found my Jap pots to be FAR more superior to CTS.
As I initially said, just a rant!
Ray
OK so I'm pretty young and I get confused quite easy and when I was looking for buying the things I saw that Allparts was quite expensive with the stuff. So now I hear that they sell the stuff to other vendors who sell it cheaper than they sell it to consumer. Ag I suppose that happens - I've seen it with agents and other music shops here pretty recently. But listen ou, I need to know where to get your Japanese pots becasue I will give them a shot hey. But it's damned amazing how many people here and elsewhere have been bamboozled becasue here and elsewhere I've heard quite a lot of people singing the praises for ACME stuff.
MikeM
CTS's TVTs and the RS Superpots (also made by cts) are the pots people rave about. Unless you have first hand experience with them, don't be so quick to judge. I somehow think this could be down to user error anyway - only time I have ever had anything break on me from excessive heat, is when I tried to solder some dpdts with an 80watt soldering gun as a 13 year old. Never had any bad first hand experience with CTS, at least nowhere as many as I have had with Alpha. Perhaps youtube some videos on how to solder, and be aware that you don't need nuts tightened to 120Nm for pots to stay in palce.
*Fixed ?
AlanRatcliffe
Tone it back please Mike.
Anyway, what do I know about pots?
Bob-Dubery
kp247 wrote:
They say "once bitten twice shy" but I've fallen into the trap 3 times now!
I keep forgetting that I don't like CTS pots! They're badly made (Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, none are made in the US)
The multiple locations are a clue.
There are many companies who make a huge range of products that vary in price and in quantity. If you want cheap 'n nasty they'll make them. If you want a very high quality then they'll fulfil that need too - at a higher price of course.
So maybe shop to a specification and forget about the name on the packaging.
kp247
I just went through my pots that I have in a container and what do you know - I've got some Alpha pots. Didn't realize it before! I have to agree, the Alpha pots are AS GOOD as the standard Japanese pots and I've been using them for years too!
Let me not be too harsh on CTS. It REALLY is a personal preference. Like a post further up by GaryMac on the Tom Anderson quote, I agree with that 100%. In my view CTS (including the so-called super pots) makes pots with a design that dates back to the 1950's or 60's (probably WW2 if you ask me). The Japs make pots that are very similar too, but these are mostly used in other fields and not in musical instruments. These are a different matter altogether and cleverly re-engineered for economy and efficiency. They might look cheap but a lot of thought have gone into them.
Thus if you hold a good Japanese pot and A/B it with a CTS pot there are some differences in design.
- On CTS pots the lugs just sit loose around the carbon track and are crimped onto and around that flimsy circuit board material, relying on direct contact alone to conduct the guitar's signal. This is of great concern to me since it is very easy for that lug to loosen under heat application or if you were to bend it a bit into the right position, once in the guitar, to make for easier soldering. The lug can easily loosen, the base deforms and you end up with a scratchy pot. This becomes more critical when you use a pot for the second or third time in another guitar.
- Another point is that on CTS pots the shaft runs through the pot's rear cover and is held into place with a sirclip. So the shaft becomes part of the mechanical construction of the pot - not good! If you were to tighten it just too much you pull the whole thing out of alignment and the feel of the pot changes.
- On good Japanese pots (I mean they design them specifically for musical instruments) the lugs are attached to the carbon track in much stronger method. They actually go right through the carbon track and the baseplate material (through a drilled hole) and are then tightly crimped with a circular crimper, making for a much stronger bond with the track. There is thus no chance of introducing resistance to the guitar's signal as it travels through the lug and onto the carbon track as a result of a poor lug/track bond. Heat has no effect on these pots and they can be used again and again.
- On Japanese pots the pot's outer cover also doesn't interfere with the shaft mechanism and it only does what it's supposed to do, that is protect the carbon track and shaft mechanism and shield the enclosure. The whole thing is a simpler, more efficient design with fewer moving parts. Their design makes for a more consistent feel than CTS, even after using them again and again.
- Lastly the shaft of a Japanese pot is attached to the pot in a simpler, stronger and less engineered fashion. Just compare them. Remember, the more parts a mechanism have, the weaker it's design!
Anyway, a rant has actually turned into a discussion now! ?
kp247
X-rated Bob wrote:
The multiple locations are a clue.
There are many companies who make a huge range of products that vary in price and in quantity. If you want cheap 'n nasty they'll make them.
Bob, what with CTS being an industry standard and all, if you buy into the CTS brand through ANY dealer you expect top quality considering the amount of money you have to lay out. There should be no superior or inferior. Just one standard - excellent!
Bob-Dubery
kp247 wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote:
The multiple locations are a clue.
There are many companies who make a huge range of products that vary in price and in quantity. If you want cheap 'n nasty they'll make them.
Bob, what with CTS being an industry standard and all, if you buy into the CTS brand through ANY dealer you expect top quality considering the amount of money you have to lay out. There should be no superior or inferior. Just one standard - excellent!
They make a range of products, as reading their spec sheets will confirm. Different accuracies, different numbers of rotations before failure, different torque to turn the shaft. They don't build everything to the same standard - and they don't hide that.
"Excellent" is not absolute anyway. Things are usually excellent (or not) for the price. Still, as you say, you keep on buying them, so they can't be that bad.
Ray
kp247 wrote:
, but these are mostly used in other fields and not in musical instruments.
And they are audio taper? But I'm interested to take a look at them. where would one get them?
Reinhard
I have CTS pots in 4 guitars, no complaints. I have a set going into another guitar soon. Sorry for your bad experiences.
