Fender 63 Spring Reverb Tank (6G15) Build?!

Norman86 · 2011-12-19T10:46:14+00:00

Seeing as i would like a Fender 63 Spring Reverb tank, and not necessarily a pedal, I have a couple of questions regarding this unit! The original Fender un...

Fender 63 Spring Reverb Tank (6G15) Build?!

AlanRatcliffe

Bothner's Plumstead had one last time I looked.

Yes, they are expensive - but they are quite complex (basically almost as much so as a full-blown valve amp) and are quite heavy items to ship. Building one takes the same level of expertise as any small valve amp.

Norman86

Maybe at a later time Keira!
Especially at this stage where im only considering options!!

Thanks Mike, but now the question comes in, with which kit to go for?
Also, are there kits other than the ones i have mentioned available?

Lastly, would a kit work out cheaper than buying the components separately?
Maybe its a stupid question?? :-[

Alan, what is it that makes them so complex?
I have seen the schematics and saw it wouldn't be easy, but i wouldn't mind trying!!
I have realised they are heavy, read a lot about them since i started playing! but never considered buying or building one before!
always just dreamt of one!

MikeM

I have not researched the different kits. There are a few specialised amp building forums out there, but I wouldn't bother getting too specific until you're ready to pull the trigger. Most of Webers stuff is great though anyway.

Don't just jump into this build haphazardly. If something goes wrong it CAN kill you. So if you do decide to do this, expect to do some reading about safety etc.

Otherwise, this is more complex than a 5F1 (which is seen as the standard start for any amp builder). Consider you've placed one component or wire incorrectly, it is a HUGE layout for a beginner to troubleshoot. So if you follow the kit and instructions to the T, you should be fine. But there are loads of areas for mistakes to be made.

Sad thing is, you'd probably be better off with that TC E reverb.. IMO made tube driven reverb quite obsolete - that's just my opinion though.

AlanRatcliffe

Norman86 wrote: Alan, what is it that makes them so complex?

Well, I'm no expert, but I think it's precisely because they are a kind of low power valve amp. There are a lot of "tricks" and "rules" for how you lay out a valve circuit and wire everything together - things that the valve gurus spend their whole lives learning and refining.

Norman86

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2288766-Tube-Reverb-Project-Photos&s=434674b0d723e0c479b07031689da2e2

Looking at this, it then really seems a lot simpler!
Probably because of the neat wiring!

Anyhows, i know the dangers!! Thats why i would rather have everything first, before building it!
but at this moment, everything is still speculation!!

Which TCE reverb are you talking about Mike?

MikeM

Not registered on that forum so can't see the pics.

Hall of fame reverb.

Ah whoops, I checked out the wrong schematic on the weber site - The one from Triodestore looks cool, and I can recommend them as good to deal with!

Norman86

From the Harmony Central link!

Is the HOF really THAT good??
Maybe i should go try out the different reverb pedals on my list then?!

MikeM

Lets put it like this. I have doubts about putting reverb in my deluxe reverb ?

Norman86

Wow alright...
Better i check all the pedals i have considered then!
Maybe i still end up making this though!!

MikeM

It will be a fun project no doubt. But it's heavy, expensive, limited use etc, when you can get 95% of the way there with a good reverb pedal (Imo there is a very short list... I would only look at 3 personally, and the HOF is the most versatile and cheapest ?)

Gearhead

My advice: Don't build this reverb unit ?

singemonkey

Norm, reverb pedals are a very fraught prospect. Nothing can quite match up to a vintage style reverb tank. The flip side is that very few people need a spring reverb tank. They're heavy, temperamental, fragile, and don't offer much different to a built in reverb circuit unless you want ultra-heavy, ultra-dripping-wet reverb. Very few people need or want that. Surf guitar players and a few indie guitar players. Some surf-players have to string these suckers up above the stage so that vibrations from the amps don't continually shake the springs.

I think that, for your purposes, unless the project is totally enticing on its own merits, you'd do better to try one of a number of better 'verb pedals. Best bang for buck is still the Holy Grail Nano 'verb pedal from EHX. It has acceptable (and warm) spring reverb simulation, and a truly exceptional hall reverb. And they're cheap. And you can get 'em here under warranty (a sine qua non for EHX pedals).

Norman86

MikeM wrote: It will be a fun project no doubt. But it's heavy, expensive, limited use etc, when you can get 95% of the way there with a good reverb pedal (Imo there is a very short list... I would only look at 3 personally, and the HOF is the most versatile and cheapest ?)

Which 3 tickle your fancy??

I have a few on my list, but will need to check them all out in the new year as funds become available!

Gearhead wrote: My advice: Don't build this reverb unit ?

Gearhead, why not??

singemonkey wrote: Norm, reverb pedals are a very fraught prospect. Nothing can quite match up to a vintage style reverb tank. The flip side is that very few people need a spring reverb tank. They're heavy, temperamental, fragile, and don't offer much different to a built in reverb circuit unless you want ultra-heavy, ultra-dripping-wet reverb. Very few people need or want that. Surf guitar players and a few indie guitar players. Some surf-players have to string these suckers up above the stage so that vibrations from the amps don't continually shake the springs.

I think that, for your purposes, unless the project is totally enticing on its own merits, you'd do better to try one of a number of better 'verb pedals. Best bang for buck is still the Holy Grail Nano 'verb pedal from EHX. It has acceptable (and warm) spring reverb simulation, and a truly exceptional hall reverb. And they're cheap. And you can get 'em here under warranty (a sine qua non for EHX pedals).

Exactly my thing...
The Albion has a digital spring reverb, but its not wet enough imo :-[
It gets wet, but not as dripping wet as id like!

Which is why i started considering buying / building a reverb tank!!

Like i mentioned before, im not really into other reverb types, im a sucker for spring reverb!!

the pedals i have looked at and would consider are:
Boss Fender 63 Spring Reverb FRV-1,
TCE HOF,
TCE Nova Reverb,
Solidgold FX Surf Rider,
Strymon Blue Sky.

I cant say that i have heard a Holy grail demo that impressed me though?!

singemonkey

That's cool. But just a word of warning: given that you're quite a new player, you want to be careful not to drown your guitar in 'verb. I can cover up a lot of mistakes, which makes it appealing. But that can also be misleading. Very wet 'verb is a hard-core effect that leaves a very strong impression. You want to make absolutely sure it's appropriate for what you're trying to do.

MikeM

I wouldn't tough a Holy Grail even playing friends' gear ?

Ah, 4 with the Strymon. Neunaber Wet would be the 4th one along with the HOF and Nova Reverb.

+1 to what Singe is saying. Reverb is over used by MANY players/sound techs.

AlanRatcliffe

+1 Mike. I don't understand the love for the Holy Grail either.

The Blue Sky is top of my list - sounds great, has all the parameters I would need and is still simple enough to use in a live setting. The HOF is the best value for money with a good range of sounds and the Wet is super simple to use and sounds great (a real set and forget kind of pedal).

+1 to singemonkey's comments. The more reverb you have, the more you disappear into the mix (and with voice, the less intelligibility you have) - that's in the nature of human hearing. You want to stand out in the mix, you decrease reverb levels. You want to pad out the sound go ahead and raise it up. I usually use shorter reverbs of about 1.2s - 1.5s (RT60) too, which help keep things tighter. Another trick is to use your predelay, which also helps the direct sound stand out.

Another thing - a reverb tank by it's very nature goes into the front end of the amp. This works very well for clean sounds, but the moment you use amp drive, the amp compresses the signal and this completely changes the volume and nature of the reverb. So if you are using amp drive, most reverbs are going to sound better in the amp's loop - surf being the one exception (which is pretty clean anyway).

Gearhead

Why? Because if you really really want to build a tube amp, you must just build a tube amp and sell that Albion of yours. If on said Albion amp you must must have spring reverb, rather mod the amp than build an entirely new half-amp on the side. Alan just made another argument for this: the place in the chain. I haven't seen the schematics, but in all likelihood you can add a buffer and recovery stage somewhere.

Keira-WitherKay

i used to be happy with my carl martin surf trem and reverb until i found that old 60's tube amp jp redesigned for me and wow the tube driven (with a relatively small tank) reverb and trem is awesome and i sold off my pedals as soon as i got it ........ BUt like alan and singe and mike are saying i play only clean and use only a hint of reverb , BUT that hint sounds awesome ...

so yes i too am adicted to tube driven spring reverb (on a clean sound that is)

but i wouldn't want to carry an entire spring reverb unit (ala the fender one) and an amp to a gig, and stack em...... i saw a video with brad paisley and he stacked a dr Z reverb unit on top of his Zwreck and wow i'd hate to have to carry that double head...to gigs..........

and they make plenty tube amps with great onboard tube driven spring reverb , so go shopping ? a great excuse for another amp

Norman86

Awh crap...
Any reason why they couldnt be used in a loop?
Too high powered or what??

Pedals... damn! was hoping to be different!
But at least a pedal will be cheaper!

AlanRatcliffe

Norman86 wrote: Any reason why they couldnt be used in a loop?
Too high powered or what??

The inputs are instrument level (about -20dB), most loops run at pro line level (+4dB). However if your amp is designed with a switchable loop level and has a setting specifically for pedals (becoming more common with more modern amps that have a solidstate send and return, but you never see it in an all-valve amps) you'll be OK running it in the loop.