Playing in a trio format

evolucian

Now this is not to have a response like "Oh, Hendrix did that and succeeded" or "Lifeson and Bellamy survive just fine" yada yada yada.

Basically, I want to know if any of you play in a true trio format... guitar, bass and drums. No keys (so that excludes the righteous and brilliant Geddy Lee automatically, even though it was a trio... ?). And aside from playing in a trio... have you found it difficult without keys or another guitar "filling up" so to say?

Personally, I find it quite difficult and extremely challenging. So much so that it forced me to take a real good listen to Van Halen (minus the tracks with keys or the odd rhythm thrown under the solo) and Extreme. Two of my favourite players making a huuuuuuuuuge sound.

Writing two or more guitar parts is easy... but writing one huge mofo riff that carries a song and itself... now thats the hard part for me... I've recently come across a few people who reckon its so easy and shit... but if it's so easy, why am I battling? lol...

Your thoughts?

Arno-West

I have played in lots of trios (guit, bass, drums) and found that you have to adjust your playing and tone a bit. Play less solos, make the tone a bit more chunky and it should be ok. It helps if there are also quite a bit of Backing vocals going on.

PeteM

I find it imperative that your bass and drums have a good solid groove and are tight. With this in place you, as the frontline instrument, can play across the beat, which fattens the sound whether you are playing full chords, triads, two note intervals or single note solos.

Hammeron

I have NEVER been on stage with another guitarist. {Excluding bass obviously}
I can't ever remember double tracking my guitar on any recording either.
Our 3 piece has only ever once been accompanied by another instrument and that was a Theramin.
I often feel we come accross better live because we put less pressure on the often allready over pressurised sound guys.
We also have less equipment to set and to lug and as a result have more space on often allready tight squeeze stages.
All in all, less complicated.

AlanRatcliffe

I think Pete nailed it - if your rhythm section isn't there providing your foundation it limits what you can do over the top of it. Trios are nice in that they allow every member to spread out and fill more space, but key in the rhythm section is still holding down the groove while you do so. That's what makes players like Geddy/Peart, Baker/Bruce and Sting/Copeland so good.

arjunmenon

evolucian wrote Now this is not to have a response like "Oh, Hendrix did that and succeeded" or "Lifeson and Bellamy survive just fine" yada yada yada.

Basically, I want to know if any of you play in a true trio format... guitar, bass and drums. No keys (so that excludes the righteous and brilliant Geddy Lee automatically, even though it was a trio... ?). And aside from playing in a trio... have you found it difficult without keys or another guitar "filling up" so to say?

Personally, I find it quite difficult and extremely challenging. So much so that it forced me to take a real good listen to Van Halen (minus the tracks with keys or the odd rhythm thrown under the solo) and Extreme. Two of my favourite players making a huuuuuuuuuge sound.

Writing two or more guitar parts is easy... but writing one huge mofo riff that carries a song and itself... now thats the hard part for me... I've recently come across a few people who reckon its so easy and shit... but if it's so easy, why am I battling? lol...

Your thoughts?

I've tried. And like you, i've battled at it. The one thing it did for me was to teach me how to create a bit of a soundscape.
Also, if the drummer and bass player have got a good groove going, it makes your job easier. Then you just need to have fills a la Summers and if you've got loads of effects you could go Lifeson.

Just my 2 bits.

evolucian

Awesome... thanks guys ? The bassist follows my lines sometimes and its going to kick his ass cos he has to sing. We've managed to only make one track so far that actually doesn't sound empty and grooves like a mofo complete with sleazy solo n stuff. But now, thats one? Sure, some of the things are busy, thats why I mentioned nuno bettencourt. But man that dude has magic when they wrote songs, which comes down to what Pete said... bass/drums. Lifeson funk Arjun, hehe... can you imagine? There are other songs that gel... but its only one that rings true... So yeah, just finding it hard though for some reason.

I'm not too worried about solo's in this thing ... just trio format kicks my butt... ah well.

But thanks again guys, appreciate it ?

singemonkey

Possibly you're noticing that it doesn't sound like a bigger band and are subconsciously disappointed. But a three piece will always sound different. Possibly it's also about learning to appreciate your sound in that context?

evolucian

Yeah, thats true singe. Making two guitar or three git parts is easy. Writing one that fills is now my super challenge... and it cant be fixed by cranking the amp, hehehehe.

AlanRatcliffe

Next logical step is to learn how to fill up all the space by yourself - percussion, bass line, rhythm and melody. Then before you know it you are devouring Tommy Emmanuel tabs and videos... ?

Jack-Flash-Jr

Take a listen to 2-piece bands...
The White Stripes
The Black Keys

The tone is a huge factor, as is the groove, and energy. They use the space as a third instrument.