guitarboy2828
StefStoep wrote:
I'm in a church of about 1500 people. We have 3 services on a Sunday, 2 in the morning and 1 in the evening. We are blessed with an abundance of musso's. We currently have 4 worship teams but are moving up to 5 next year.
Team 1 will do the 2 morning services and Team 2 the prayer meeting on a thursday and the sunday evening meeting. Team 3 and 4 the week after that and then the week after that team 2 will do the morning and team 1 the evening and so on ...
We do mostly songs from Hillsong, Jesus Culture and The Passion group of artist.
New songs 1 per month. Introducing new songs, I usually get a link of the original song on YouTube and e-mail it to the band members to listen to.
I lead one team on either accoust or on electric, as well as being lead vocals.
A big problem is people who wants to join the teams but skill level isn't high enough. That is why we are starting a beginners team under some seasonned musso's to help and teach them.
Another issue is you are working with musicians who are easily offended because we are artists and we are feely, touchy people! And even worse you are also working with Christians who is even easier offended than musso's! This is probably my biggest challenge in my team to keep every1 happy and not to step on toes and to make every1 feel like their 5cents matter.
Stef, man, that's awesome! I'd love to be in that position, where I have multiple bands! ?
Question with the new, upcoming muzo's.. Can you elaborate on your process here?
And maybe a follow up question, what would you suggest for a smaller church who doesn't have many musicians, but has a lot of younger people (13-17 years old) learning instruments. We strive for excellence in any band situation, whether it be church or at a club. However, we also realise that we want to include those willing to serve and it's kind of tough to turn people away or put them on hold when you have no one else playing what they can play. But to include them means including people that really aren't that good, that are immature in age and so half the time they aren't practising.
http://www.worshipbackingband.com/uk/multi-track-page?utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailWBBeblast I found this today (got emailed to me).. Has anyone ever seen this? Tried this? Looks kinda cool... In 3 months time, the majority of my band (they are all in one family) are leaving. My only drummer, bassist and both keyboardists are going back to the USA. So, I'm really cornered. Trying to weigh up my options here!! :/
Squonk
Just do it yourself Paul, Here's your chance to fill out your Acoustic Playing.
The only thing with backing tracks is that you will be controlled by them, you cant sing the chorus again or even just sing the chorus, you would have to be dictated to by the backing track.(probably fine for churches who have zero musicians)
And what are you going to do when there is a power cut?
Go for it Solo, you can still get big sounds with your acoustic to drive the whole thing.
At the same time, possibly nurturing new musicians.
guitarboy2828
Squonk, you are totally right.. My single acoustic can work, in fact, it looks like this week it'll just be me on my acoustic.. Was not supposed to be that way, but the rest of my music team just didn't show up at practice last night. No reason or rhyme... So, this will be a good indication of what it'll be like ?
Sean
Squonk wrote:
Just do it yourself Paul, Here's your chance to fill out your Acoustic Playing.
The only thing with backing tracks is that you will be controlled by them, you cant sing the chorus again or even just sing the chorus, you would have to be dictated to by the backing track.(probably fine for churches who have zero musicians)
And what are you going to do when there is a power cut?
Go for it Solo, you can still get big sounds with your acoustic to drive the whole thing.
At the same time, possibly nurturing new musicians.
+1 This right here Paul.
I won't add to what Squonk has said here on the thread, but I'll still PM you as soon as I can.
Sean
Okay, I see Squonk's post has been moderated, which was the part I was really referring to ? Anyway, Paul, I've pm'd you.
MNM7
Hi. I love threads like these on secular forums like this, cause it gives people like us who play in church bands the chance to let people who do secular gigs see this side of the spectrum. Just a note I don't have a problem with people doing secular gigs and I wish I could do it as well. Anyway, the questions.
What size is the church you play in?
We have anything from 500 - about a 1000 people on any given Sunday. We have 2 services, morning and evening. The morning services seats the most people. Our morning service has an average age group of between 28 to 38. Evening service is our young adult service. And the age group is usually from high school to about 30. So it's usually a lot louder and livelier.
What songs/bands do you play in church?
We play contemporary songs like hillsong, jesus culture, fee band, etc. We also play afrikaans songs like Retief Burger, Louis Brittz. We also from time to time take the old psalms and gesange songs of the NG kerk and revamp em a bit.
What gear do you use in your church situation?
I use my Gretsch Projet into my few pedals, namely the Boss SD-1, DS-1, Zoom GFX-1 and DD-7. Into a 50w solid state amp. Sometimes i use the churches line 6 flextone 3 as the amp. Sometimes I play bass then I use an oldish ibanez bass. Not sure of exact model as of writing this post.
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
I play lead guitar sometimes rhythm depending on the song and who the second electric is. Sometimes I play bass
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
I don't really have any. When they do arise it gets sorted out ASAP.
Our band is very dynamic. We are people from different backgrounds musically. In fact other than our Worship leader, most of us have full time day jobs that have no connection to music at all. And this makes it even better.
Our band setup is as follows:
2 acoustics - 1 worship leader, 1 backing acoustic
2 electrics - This is where we are dynamic as we switch between who plays lead and rhythm depending on the song and which two electric players are playing in that service.
1 keyboard - plays piano and strings parts.
1 synth - this is what's cool. We have a dude with a M-Audio axiam 49 i think. With his pc on stage playing synth and pads sounds for us. when strings just don't cut it.
1 bass - ofcourse
1 drummer - naturally
1 - 5 backing vocals - dependant on if they are available the Sunday and dependant on how our worship leader sets up the set.
In this set-up we take the songs and make them our own. We don't always cover a song. We improvise where and when we can but keep the core of the song, especially the worship songs. I terms of practice, we get the the roster by Wednesday and set list by Thursday practice time. we rehearse\practice on thursdays. 7-8 is morning service rehearsal. 8-9 is everybody get together and we have some kind of teaching or spiritual discussion that usually has a connection to what we do on sundays as a worship team and 9-10 is evening service rehearsal. We have one band but the people playing can differ between the morning and evening service.
Jack-Flash-Jr
Don't know if they've been mentioned here but you guys should check out 16 Horsepower (first album, Sackcloth and Ashes, is my fave)... awesome slide, lots of instrument experimentation and genuine "believer's" evocative power.
Sean
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
Don't know if they've been mentioned here but you guys should check out 16 Horsepower (first album, Sackcloth and Ashes, is my fave)... awesome slide, lots of instrument experimentation and genuine "believer's" evocative power.
Nice, will definitely take a look
PeteM
Okay, so I don't play in a church band but I was invited recently to attend a concert/service at a church on a Saturday at which a number of bands had been invited to play.
My comments now are subjective as a musician and I hope those who are in church bands don't take offence.
Apart from one performer, who was the main act, a guy who sang his original compositions to a professionally produced backing track in which he had played all the instruments himself, the rest were disappointing to say the least.
Drummers' timings were way off, and scaling... instruments were out of tune, particularly one band who had a sax player that was almost a ΒΌ tone out to the keyboards and the singers were way off pitch.
What I noticed was that some of the audience/congregation were caught up in the moment of fellowship and were oblivious, or at least tolerant/forgiving of the poor standard of music. Others were wincing and clearly not enjoying it. Me? I was amused. As a music teacher, I too am tolerant of students who are learning to play, but when these bands were advertised to get people to come to the event then I do expect them to at least be in tune.
I got the feeling that this was a case of self-indulgence on the part of the musicians with little thought given to the audience's sensibilities.
As a kid, which was before the rinderpest, I sang in a traditional men's church choir and was subject to clear disciplines that remain with me to this day. We, the boys, had a formal practice for an hour every Tuesday and Thursday and then we would come together on a Friday evening with the men, the tenors and basses, for an hour. We then sang at two services on a Sunday and were also booked on occasions to do weddings. There was no messing about and you listened intently to the choir master or you were out. Also, if after two months you couldn't hold a tune you were out.
Paul, I reckon that if you have a small congregation, you could think about forming a choir of say 10 people, with you doing the accompaniment on acoustic guitar and with one of the singers playing a tambourine and other appropriate percussion instruments. You can concentrate on getting a sound from your singers and forget the idea of trying to make a band out of sub-standard musos. Also, with a 10 piece choir, if some people don't attend it's not a train smash. Those who do play instruments well can be invited up to do their thing on an ad-hoc basis.
afflicted
I play in a large church that has congregations across the city. Here comes the dilemma: They are all different sizes. The original venue seats 800-1000 people, another venue about 200, another venue about 500, and another venue about 100. We are lucky to have 7 (or 8?) bands and I lead one of them on electric. Each leader has his/her own band (they only change when people are unavailable) and mine consists of me on electric, acoustic, bass, keys, drums. 5 piece, it's very nice. I am also blessed to have skilled musicians in my band. Some of the other bands are a bit less fortunate.
Gear for church: Tele Thinline, M13, Vox AC4TVH and the 12" cab.
We play original songs, NCMI songs, as well as contemporary worship songs.
I have gone from amp modelling, to a Peavey Classic 30, to a Vox AC15C1, to now the AC4 head and cab. Amp modelling just didn't cut it. I was never happy. I only had the Classic 30 because it was a bargain, I knew it would be too loud. Finally, the AC4 is still too loud, even in the biggest venue, to face the congregation if I run it halfway up as I like to. All I do is turn it sideways across the stage, or angle the cab up over the heads of the congregation, and this seems to be the best solution.
I would say the biggest challenges are differing sound engineer's skill levels. Some are great, some have no idea. It is a rapidly growing church and sometimes volunteers just have no idea. The best compromise I have found is the AC4. I love the amp. I do not like playing it on the 1 watt setting live, I would rather just turn the cab. The amp sings on 4 watts, and I don't see any reason why I would ever need a larger amp, as it is always mic'ed. I have cranked the amp twice before practices, and, wow. Just wow.
We recently (finally) put a roof on the perspex drum cage in the biggest venue, and this has solved a lot of the sound issues, as the drums were overpowering. Now it is much easier to get a balanced mix. At the other sites, electronic drums are used (mainly, depending on the drummer).
Sean
PeteM wrote:
I got the feeling that this was a case of self-indulgence on the part of the musicians with little thought given to the audience's sensibilities.
To me that is often the case Pete. P&W in a church and performance bands are two completely different things. I will go to live
performances and I can at times be super critical about the sound, musicianship etc. But if I visit other churches, and their team is not very skilled, BUT, if they are up there for reasons other than performing or self-indulgence ( reasons that, lets just say, are the whole point of going to a church ) well I've found I don't notice the flaws in the music at all.
EDIT: Sorry, not completely correct, did not mean to say I don't
notice the flaws, often I still do, but it's not important in the context of what is happening, it does not bother me, it does not distract me ?
PeteM
Sean wrote:
PeteM wrote:
I got the feeling that this was a case of self-indulgence on the part of the musicians with little thought given to the audience's sensibilities.
To me that is often the case Pete. P&W in a church and performance bands are two completely different things. I will go to live performances and I can at times be super critical about the sound, musicianship etc. But if I visit other churches, and their team is not very skilled, BUT, if they are up there for reasons other than performing or self-indulgence ( reasons that, lets just say, are the whole point of going to a church ) well I've found I don't notice the flaws in the music at all.
My observation, which might be quite harsh, is that it is a two way thing... because the audience is tolerant the musos don't feel the need to hone their skills... and everyone wallows in mediocrity. Who is fooling who?
Sean
PeteM wrote:
Sean wrote:
PeteM wrote:
I got the feeling that this was a case of self-indulgence on the part of the musicians with little thought given to the audience's sensibilities.
To me that is often the case Pete. P&W in a church and performance bands are two completely different things. I will go to live performances and I can at times be super critical about the sound, musicianship etc. But if I visit other churches, and their team is not very skilled, BUT, if they are up there for reasons other than performing or self-indulgence ( reasons that, lets just say, are the whole point of going to a church ) well I've found I don't notice the flaws in the music at all.
My observation, which might be quite harsh, is that it is a two way thing... because the audience is tolerant the musos don't feel the need to hone their skills... and everyone wallows in mediocrity. Who is fooling who?
I don't think mediocrity should be condoned in any way. But at the end of the day, most churches make do with the gifts that those in the church have. Again, I believe it's about attitude. If those in the worship team are genuinely giving their best, and their motives are not selfish, it works. You're quite right though, often folk are doing things half-heartedly, and that is never a good thing, not in any situation.
On this forum, I unfortunately will not be able to elaborate more on why things just work a little differently in a church when the attitude of the worship team, as well as the congregation, is not based on superficial expectations ?
Airguitar
Sean wrote:
PeteM wrote:
Sean wrote:
PeteM wrote:
I got the feeling that this was a case of self-indulgence on the part of the musicians with little thought given to the audience's sensibilities.
To me that is often the case Pete. P&W in a church and performance bands are two completely different things. I will go to live performances and I can at times be super critical about the sound, musicianship etc. But if I visit other churches, and their team is not very skilled, BUT, if they are up there for reasons other than performing or self-indulgence ( reasons that, lets just say, are the whole point of going to a church ) well I've found I don't notice the flaws in the music at all.
My observation, which might be quite harsh, is that it is a two way thing... because the audience is tolerant the musos don't feel the need to hone their skills... and everyone wallows in mediocrity. Who is fooling who?
I don't think mediocrity should be condoned in any way. But at the end of the day, most churches make do with the gifts that those in the church have. Again, I believe it's about attitude. If those in the worship team are genuinely giving their best, and their motives are not selfish, it works. You're quite right though, often folk are doing things half-heartedly, and that is never a good thing, not in any situation.
On this forum, I unfortunately will not be able to elaborate more on why things just work a little differently in a church when the attitude of the worship team, as well as the congregation, is not based on superficial expectations ?
I am currently on a hiatus from playing guitar in a Worship Team, but have seen all of the above happening, and most often, all of it happening at once. There are going to be some prima donnas, some people who do just want to worship, and you have to deal with all of them.
PeteM, you make a good point, the prima donnas ARE up there for their own gratification.
They don't do the team any good and nor do they do the music any good. Is this any different from any other band situation? Methinks not..
Why handle it any differently from a "Band situation"? Oh yeah, the Pastor say "We have to use what we've got"
So, Sean's idea is a good one. If you don't dig the "Choir" image call them a vocal team or whatever, but a choir is the best ego leveler on the planet. It also teaches discipline, teamwork and harmony.. It will root out the prima donna element and what remains will be good.
As far as the musicians are concerned you have to be tough on them, but fair. Take ONE song and make them play it over and over again, ad nauseum until they're playing in time and in tune.. It will affect the other songs you know too..
Be diligent and show yourself to be an approved workman.. (Paraphrased)
Jack-Flash-Jr
Steady on Sean. There is nothing superficial about what Pete is saying.
Sean
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
Steady on Sean. There is nothing superficial about what Pete is saying.
Apologies, it came across clumsily...I was referring to regular Christians in churches, not Pete.
Garth-S
What size is the church you play in?
We have 2 services at our church, about 800 people for a morning service and about 250 for an evening service. For this reason we have a main auditorium, as well as a small hall. We're extremely lucky to have plenty of very competent musos including violinists, cellists and flatists.
What songs/bands do you play in church?
A very wide variety, with alot of the ones already mentioned as well as a few home grown songs ?
What gear do you use in your church situation?
We are really fortunate to have some amazing gear at church. Our main system in the auditorium consists of a Yamaha M7CL-32 (maybe the 48 not 100% sure) desk, a whole lot of EAW speakers and subs, I'm not sure of the amps we use, and an Aviom in ear monitoring system. Personally I use my Acoustic through an Avalon DI, or my Electric (either my strat or ibanez, depends how I'm feeling) through a simple pedal board with a planet waves tuner pedal, Boss OD-20 and Ibanez DE7, into the Peavey Valveking amp in the back room.
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
I lead one of the 4 bands either on acoustic or electric, depending on what sound I'm going for at the time. My band is mainly on for evening services and we are given quite a lot of freedom in terms of trying new things, which is awesome! My main band has me on either acoustic or electric, my very good friend on electric and keys/synth, a drummer and a bassist, and we are able to rope in other musos as and when we please.
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
My only frustration is that people generally don't look after what does not belong to them. I really get upset when I find stuff that does not work or is broken. It's very difficult to manage so many musos and our music leader has a tough time with damaged equipment.
