guitarboy2828
After starting my thread "my setup is frustrating me" I learnt that there seems to be a lot more church musicians than I thought. So, I thought it'd be great to have a thread that allowed us to interact with one another instead of PMing each other, because that becomes hard when you want to ask several people the same sorts of questions. I thought this way we can discuss different dynamics in a church on one thread.
Just a quick disclaimer, this is NOT a thread for beliefs, convictions, bible knowledge or anything of the such. This is purely from a band perspective and more specifically as a guitarist in a band in a church. Let's face it, church bands have a very unique dynamic. As the leader of a band you don't get to pick your musicians, in smaller churches you get whoever can play whatever. In larger churches you may get a wider variety, but even then, you have to use those people that are apart of the church (generally).
So, if you're in a church, involved in the band, maybe you can answer some questions and then we can start asking other questions? Maybe it's just me, but I could really use some help and inspiration when it comes to my small churches little band that is really struggling along! ?
Some initial Q's:
What size is the church you play in?
What songs/bands do you play in church?
What gear do you use in your church situation?
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
I've had some good discussions with people that are in the same boat as I am in in my church via PMs, but I think it'd be super helpful to post that info on here so that we can get more opinions on it.
guitarboy2828
I'll start off answering my own questions ?
What size is the church you play in?
Small. We have 80-90 adults. Our building is an old cinema, so its a rectangle with no acoustic tiling, so its a reverb tank of note. It seats 130.
What songs/bands do you play in church?
We play contemporary worship stuff. Chris Tomlin, Hillsong, Brenton Brown, Matt Redman, etc.
What gear do you use in your church situation?
I mainly stick to acoustic because of the issues I'm facing with sound issues and band struggles. So, just my breedlove into a para DI into the PA.
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
I am the main worship pastor/leader at the church. So, I am the guy leading every week (also because there is just NO ONE else to help in that area).
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
I could write a book on this question right now ?
Right now our church band is tiny, we have very few skilled musicians and are struggling to figure out how to find more. We have a pretty competent drummer and keyboardist and then a few other people that are okay, but not great. There is no up and coming potential either, which is worrying.
Another struggle is trying to create a lively worship/atmosphere with so few musicians. Our drummer only plays every other week. So, every other week we have no drums. Just me on guitar, one singer and one keyboardist (not the good one either). So, must is just "plodding" along. I've tried to incorporate my electric into the mix as I thought that'd add some more power and dynamic into the sound. However, the congregation just stared at me when I did that. Not sure if it's because it sounded bad or they just didn't like it or what, but it was a bit awkward. ???
Jack-Flash-Jr
I find the context very interesting wrt to forming a band and getting band members, who is eligible etc. Perhaps if you considered an outside session drummer and other members as long as he/she fits in with the vibe...
I would keep introducing electric as long as it fits with the style... people will start enjoying it.
As an aside, I believe every gospel endeavour needs this:
?
Bob-Dubery
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
I find the context very interesting wrt to forming a band and getting band members, who is eligible etc. Perhaps if you considered an outside session drummer and other members as long as he/she fits in with the vibe...
I would keep introducing electric as long as it fits with the style... people will start enjoying it.
As an aside, I believe every gospel endeavour needs this:
?
Humbug!
That's Southern Baptist. Gospel could just as easily be Methodist (a Church with a big singing tradition). Paul Simon once said that Art Garfunkel is a great gospel singer - but Methodist rather than Baptist.
guitarboy2828
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
I find the context very interesting wrt to forming a band and getting band members, who is eligible etc. Perhaps if you considered an outside session drummer and other members as long as he/she fits in with the vibe...
I would keep introducing electric as long as it fits with the style... people will start enjoying it.
As an aside, I believe every gospel endeavour needs this:
?
+100000 to the pic... Now where do I get me one of those? ?
I do agree though Jack, getting muzo's are hard. I actually know a session drummer in JHB who is often hired by churches... I'm not sure my small churches budget stretches far enough to hire muzo's.. ☹
evolucian
I helped out a friend in his church for a few weeks, a few weeks ago. Well, we say church, but it was Tanz, church being Godfirst. Sound there is phenomenal. With a backline of amps at your disposal it became easy to get the desired sound. Only hiccup was if the newbie sound guy was setting it up, my mic landed up about 20cm from the cone... heard nothing... only noticed during the second set (once I had my fill of MacDonald's coffee and breakfast... seeing as we left home at 6 in winter and 5:30 in summer... I didn't know those times existed till I said "hmmmm... ok... I'll help you guys out for a bit"
I remember them all being Hillsongs stuff... and they tended to favour the Chris Tomlin songs.
So I used my strat and the venues HotRod Deluxe :~ along with my sansamp GT2... oooooooooooh. When they requested a song to have bighair, click!!! When they wanted chill... uhm...
My role was guitar boy. Dave the drummer boy was awesome to play with... although I am not a morning person. So having to try and smile that early in the morning may have damaged my face more than it is.
The frustrations I had was the light and shade issues... being a non christian as well as immune to knowing anything about gospel songwriting... the difference between praise and worship was so damn new to me. Confusing to say the least... "ok, this is a praise song, crank it. That is a worship song... back off and make violin fades with the keyboardist. Here the pastor is gonna chat a bit, like an intro.. widdle on clean but tasty." That was a lot to remember at the time of day. Had to play the first set without coffee in me system. I nearly died. Traumatic it was.
So roughly it was a 5 piece. 3 backline (guitars, drums and bass) and 2 vocalists. Depending on the roster, one of the vocalists would play keys.
It was a nice experience jamming with the muso's... Drummer boy and I flew into a jazz improv on my last day there (after the last song when people were leaving).
So Paul... you can take your electric.. blend it into the mix at soundcheck. A Fender amp will give you the cleans you desire... pedals for drive. But do remember to blend, otherwise yeah, they will stare. The sound CAN be full... most of those songs can be done with one guitar, or at least most of them are ? But if your congregation aint into the livelier stuff.... then i have no idea. Truth be told I almost fell asleep standing up with those worship tracks. Bassist: "pssst... Peter.. you're drooling"
guitarboy2828
Peter, you just made me laugh SOOOO much! I actually really appreciate your "non-christian" opinion.. Definitely sheds some light! ? ?
evolucian
Some of the songs that stuck out to me were:
Chris Tomlin "Here for you" - nice little clean intro verse and big chorus and bridge.
"Highest and the greatest" - Cool 6/8 thing going on. Complete with big intro... soft verse... big hair chorus and its two bridges. (????) Though for safety sake we'll call the 2nd bridge a tag. But that 6/8 intro was awesome to pull off in the morning. Nothing quite like drive to say "Goodmorning sunshine"
There were quite a few others, but those stuck out to me. The problem was... these guys kept changing keys from week to week (to cater to the vocalist there that week) and that screwed it up for me. Working out a nice line in a cool register was wasted work the next week... sigh.
But to get back to that light shade issue... rehearsal I was told to give a wailing solo on one choon. ON the day, first set... get to the song's solo, I go into a tasty flurry... and no, they decided to jump to an improv worship. I was left high and dry... sniff... so much for band support, lol. 2nd set I expected the same thing... no... they don't go into impromptu worship but full on jamming... and I made my big sound disappear by going clean... ugh... there goes that band support too... they all look at me and I look at them.... "What?".... .... .... "... oh...."
But it was still fun... glad you enjoyed it Paul ?
rikus
Paul E wrote:
...I'm not sure my small churches budget stretches far enough to hire muzo's.. ☹
That there is the crux of the matter I think. If it's not something you do because you want to/are passionate about, it's a big time commitment if you're not getting paid.
What size is the church you play in?
No idea what the total size is, but the auditorium sits around 500 people (I think ??? ), but only the evening services really fills it to capacity.
What songs/bands do you play in church?
Contemporary worship (Hillsong, Chris Tomlin, Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Jesus Culture, Bethel etc) as well as Afrikaans worship (Retief Burger, Juanita etc).
What gear do you use in your church situation?
When I'm on electric I use my strat into my little 5 watt champ clone. I recently switched to stomp boxes and basically use a volume pedal, OD pedal and delay pedal. For delay it's typically just dotted 8th stuff to emulate the hillsong sound. I also use the delay pedal and volume pedal to do nice ambient swells and things...
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
Lead electric, but also acoustic when it's needed
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
I wouldn't call it a frustration, but we try and run two bands to play each other week, so its a challenge to keep a full contingent for two bands (keys, drums, bass, acoustic (two if one of the vocalists also play), electric, 2/3 vocalist) as it is a big commitment. Practice on Thursday evenings and 3 services on a Sunday. It always gets sorted in the end though (I was forced to make the change to electric after our lead electric guitarist left and it really was sink or swim as I had just noodling on electric for the longest time, with most of my time spent on acoustic... it ended up working out perfectly. I'm totally in love with electric playing again!)
guitarboy2828
Another question I have is how do you guys set up your band practices, learning new songs, changing arrangements, etc.
I am the only constant in our "two bands". The really aren't two bands.. But the keyboardist changes and I lose a drummer and gain a singer. So, I'm the only constant. So, how do I learn new songs? Do you go to band practice on only the weeks you're on? If so, when learning new songs, does you not forget what you practised 2-3 weeks prior? Does the music leader get you the songs and chords a few weeks in advance so you can practice them before the band practice?
What is your procedure for doing that?
rikus
Paul E wrote:
Another question I have is how do you guys set up your band practices, learning new songs, changing arrangements, etc.
I am the only constant in our "two bands". The really aren't two bands.. But the keyboardist changes and I lose a drummer and gain a singer. So, I'm the only constant. So, how do I learn new songs? Do you go to band practice on only the weeks you're on? If so, when learning new songs, does you not forget what you practised 2-3 weeks prior? Does the music leader get you the songs and chords a few weeks in advance so you can practice them before the band practice?
What is your procedure for doing that?
You only practice during the week if you're playing on the Sunday. We get a songset mailed to us on a Tuesday, which lists the songs and the key for each song. We don't introduce too many new songs... I'd say maybe one a month? After a while you get comfortable for the core set of songs... then it becomes a bit easier to keep everything straight in your head.
You're expected to know your parts when you arrive at practice on Thursday. When we're learning a new song we'll give it a listen and talk through the structure and start practising on getting it tight. We try to spend more time making sure we're tight and working on the transitions between songs and things (the flow), as opposed to actually practising/learning your parts at the practice.
Our worship leader is on keys, so she works out all the arrangements and things and sends them to us. Our vocalists have been with us for a long time, so there's not too much changing of keys going on.
Bob-Dubery
OK... I've actually played in a similar situation (story for another forum and another time).
It's a difficult gig, because the audience isn't there because they have a common taste in music as would be the case for a secular gig. Their motivation is different. The band members might come from different musical backgrounds, and are in the band not just for their musical skills.
So.... how about playing your own material? This means that you can tailor the arrangements to what you have, and it means you don't suffer by comparison to the original. It's much easier to sound like yourselves than like some other band.
In the band and organisation I'm thinking of there was a sort of standard canon of songs recorded by bands in Australia and the USA. We did some of those, but we did our own stuff as well. It did mean that we had to curb some things, the music had to stay mostly sweet and not to jarring or startling - go easy on the overdrive, that sort of thing. I played some keyboards in that band (I'm ham-handed in the key of C, really sucky in any other key) and I found that a big, swirly string synth sort of sound was quite handy for filling out the sound.
We actually had an over-abundance of players (of various degrees of skill) initially. We split up and had two bands, which took some load off of everybody's private lives (which we weren't supposed to have, but they're kind of unavoidable). Eventually we ended up with just one band as various people decided that they couldn't make the comittment. Although it's for a greater cause, you do have to accept that people have more prosaic responsibilities that do need their attention. They may have kids that need looking after. People will get sick and need to be cared for or rest (or be unable to sing).
Our playing environments were mostly sonically awful but fairly small and volume levels weren't high (we were in a suburban area and so had to keep noise levels down). We found it a good thing to have one person involved in all of this who didn't play but listened and gave (diplomatically) feed back and suggestions.
It wasn't easy. We had one guitarist who was really a blues player, another who was a sort of classic rocker. One singer was a trained opera singer and the rest were self taught. I inherited the keyboard chair when the lady who initially played them bowed to the pressures of running a family, so in that role (I did some folky guitar too) I was easily the weakest player in the band. Our drummer liked jazz and funk. Our bass player came from a show band background. Not easy to make cohesive musical statements with that sort of line up. It was ESSENTIAL that egos got checked at the doors, and the songs would sort of pull in all sorts of directions and then settle down in the middle somewhere.
Eventually I decided it was getting too crowded (we had 4 guitar players at one point), and the opera singer and I teamed up - one voice and one guitar. In small venues it was OK and again it meant that the band got some breathers.
Jack-Flash-Jr
X-rated Bob wrote:
OK... I've actually played in a similar situation (story for another forum and another time).
It's a difficult gig, because the audience isn't there because they have a common taste in music as would be the case for a secular gig. Their motivation is different. The band members might come from different musical backgrounds, and are in the band not just for their musical skills.
So.... how about playing your own material? This means that you can tailor the arrangements to what you have, and it means you don't suffer by comparison to the original. It's much easier to sound like yourselves than like some other band.
In the band and organisation I'm thinking of there was a sort of standard canon of songs recorded by bands in Australia and the USA. We did some of those, but we did our own stuff as well. It did mean that we had to curb some things, the music had to stay mostly sweet and not to jarring or startling - go easy on the overdrive, that sort of thing. I played some keyboards in that band (I'm ham-handed in the key of C, really sucky in any other key) and I found that a big, swirly string synth sort of sound was quite handy for filling out the sound.
We actually had an over-abundance of players (of various degrees of skill) initially. We split up and had two bands, which took some load off of everybody's private lives (which we weren't supposed to have, but they're kind of unavoidable). Eventually we ended up with just one band as various people decided that they couldn't make the comittment. Although it's for a greater cause, you do have to accept that people have more prosaic responsibilities that do need their attention. They may have kids that need looking after. People will get sick and need to be cared for or rest (or be unable to sing).
Our playing environments were mostly sonically awful but fairly small and volume levels weren't high (we were in a suburban area and so had to keep noise levels down). We found it a good thing to have one person involved in all of this who didn't play but listened and gave (diplomatically) feed back and suggestions.
It wasn't easy. We had one guitarist who was really a blues player, another who was a sort of classic rocker. One singer was a trained opera singer and the rest were self taught. I inherited the keyboard chair when the lady who initially played them bowed to the pressures of running a family, so in that role (I did some folky guitar too) I was easily the weakest player in the band. Our drummer liked jazz and funk. Our bass player came from a show band background. Not easy to make cohesive musical statements with that sort of line up. It was ESSENTIAL that egos got checked at the doors, and the songs would sort of pull in all sorts of directions and then settle down in the middle somewhere.
Eventually I decided it was getting too crowded (we had 4 guitar players at one point), and the opera singer and I teamed up - one voice and one guitar. In small venues it was OK and again it meant that the band got some breathers.
Details Bob details... was this a Freemason band?
Bob-Dubery
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
Details Bob details... was this a Freemason band?
[sigh...]
X-rated Bob wrote:
OK... I've actually played in a similar situation (story for another forum and another time).
DonovanB
One of the biggest things I used to try get was emotion out of any song. It taught me a massive lesson in that dynamics can communicate a message just as much as lyrics.
if we wanted a song to feel a certain way, we would do it slower or faster. Being catholic there is a lot of activity during the mass that we used to take advantage of. So if there was movement we would try for a certain feel, if everyone was kneeling down we would go for something else.
As any band, or group, you want your audience/church to connect with you. It was a great practice ground for that.
StefStoep
I'm in a church of about 1500 people. We have 3 services on a Sunday, 2 in the morning and 1 in the evening. We are blessed with an abundance of musso's. We currently have 4 worship teams but are moving up to 5 next year.
Team 1 will do the 2 morning services and Team 2 the prayer meeting on a thursday and the sunday evening meeting. Team 3 and 4 the week after that and then the week after that team 2 will do the morning and team 1 the evening and so on ...
We do mostly songs from Hillsong, Jesus Culture and The Passion group of artist.
New songs 1 per month. Introducing new songs, I usually get a link of the original song on YouTube and e-mail it to the band members to listen to.
I lead one team on either accoust or on electric, as well as being lead vocals.
A big problem is people who wants to join the teams but skill level isn't high enough. That is why we are starting a beginners team under some seasonned musso's to help and teach them.
Another issue is you are working with musicians who are easily offended because we are artists and we are feely, touchy people! And even worse you are also working with Christians who is even easier offended than musso's! This is probably my biggest challenge in my team to keep every1 happy and not to step on toes and to make every1 feel like their 5cents matter.
allwillc
Thanks for the post
What size is the church you play in?
Seats around 250 people. Early service is traditional hymns and mid morning is praise and worship
What songs/bands do you play in church?
Contemporary and some older praise and worship.
What gear do you use in your church situation?
I'm on guitar, use a Gibson LP or ES335 into JC 120. We have drums, keyboard and bass and vocalists.
What is your role in the band? (Leader on acoustic, leader on electric, second guitarist, third guitarist, etc)
Worship leader + guitar.
What frustrations do you find playing in your church situation?
Playing every week throughout the year can be a challenge with a small band. Looking to recruit more members to the band and get a trained sound tech.
We subscribe to CCLI (Christian Copyright Licensing International). For about R400 you get a year subscription to download lyrics and sheet music for most of the contemporary songs. It helps when eveyone's on the same page, especially with new songs. Check it out www.ccli.co.za.
guitarboy2828
StefStoep wrote:
I'm in a church of about 1500 people. We have 3 services on a Sunday, 2 in the morning and 1 in the evening. We are blessed with an abundance of musso's. We currently have 4 worship teams but are moving up to 5 next year.
Team 1 will do the 2 morning services and Team 2 the prayer meeting on a thursday and the sunday evening meeting. Team 3 and 4 the week after that and then the week after that team 2 will do the morning and team 1 the evening and so on ...
We do mostly songs from Hillsong, Jesus Culture and The Passion group of artist.
New songs 1 per month. Introducing new songs, I usually get a link of the original song on YouTube and e-mail it to the band members to listen to.
I lead one team on either accoust or on electric, as well as being lead vocals.
A big problem is people who wants to join the teams but skill level isn't high enough. That is why we are starting a beginners team under some seasonned musso's to help and teach them.
Another issue is you are working with musicians who are easily offended because we are artists and we are feely, touchy people! And even worse you are also working with Christians who is even easier offended than musso's! This is probably my biggest challenge in my team to keep every1 happy and not to step on toes and to make every1 feel like their 5cents matter.
Stef, man, that's awesome! I'd love to be in that position, where I have multiple bands! ?
Question with the new, upcoming muzo's.. Can you elaborate on your process here?
And maybe a follow up question, what would you suggest for a smaller church who doesn't have many musicians, but has a lot of younger people (13-17 years old) learning instruments. We strive for excellence in any band situation, whether it be church or at a club. However, we also realise that we want to include those willing to serve and it's kind of tough to turn people away or put them on hold when you have no one else playing what they can play. But to include them means including people that really aren't that good, that are immature in age and so half the time they aren't practising.
http://www.worshipbackingband.com/uk/multi-track-page?utm_medium=email&utm_source=emailWBBeblast I found this today (got emailed to me).. Has anyone ever seen this? Tried this? Looks kinda cool... In 3 months time, the majority of my band (they are all in one family) are leaving. My only drummer, bassist and both keyboardists are going back to the USA. So, I'm really cornered. Trying to weigh up my options here!! :/
Squonk
Just do it yourself Paul, Here's your chance to fill out your Acoustic Playing.
The only thing with backing tracks is that you will be controlled by them, you cant sing the chorus again or even just sing the chorus, you would have to be dictated to by the backing track.(probably fine for churches who have zero musicians)
And what are you going to do when there is a power cut?
Go for it Solo, you can still get big sounds with your acoustic to drive the whole thing.
At the same time, possibly nurturing new musicians.
guitarboy2828
Squonk, you are totally right.. My single acoustic can work, in fact, it looks like this week it'll just be me on my acoustic.. Was not supposed to be that way, but the rest of my music team just didn't show up at practice last night. No reason or rhyme... So, this will be a good indication of what it'll be like ?
