My set up is frustrating me!

guitarboy2828 · 2011-11-30T15:23:59+00:00

Ok, I don't even know how to start this post. But, I have got pictures, so at least that will help! ? I mainly play acoustic now, which I love, but on the odd occasion, I want to play electric. However, I really don't like the sound I'm getting, my set up is chucky and a mission to set up and by the end of it, I don't want to play anymore. So, I end up never playing electric. So, here is my pedalboard: As you can see, the board is far to big, at first I thought it'd be okay because I'd just buy more pedals to fill it up. But, practically, a board that size is a bit stupid. It doesn't even fit in the boot of my golf. So, that is a problem. I do like the portability of the rockcase though. Would the size small house all my pedals? The way my set up is run right now is: Guitar -> Volume -> Wah -> Tonebone -> Looper (when i'm practicing) -> Amp (an Ibanez TSA15) The Nova system goes into the effects loop So, right there is like 4 cables going to my amp (2 from Nova, 1 from looper and 1 from amp channel switcher, MISSION) ON TOP of all of that. Even when I do set it all up and I play, I really can't find a sound I like. It sounds muddy and well, crap! I have a Fender MIM strat, everything is stock. Maybe I need a pickup change? Here is my guitar: I play mostly rock/blues style music. It's usually rock/church music, here is a video of a sound that I really like (Listen to just the opening few seconds, the first guitar you hear): = So, all that to say. Let's say money wasn't an issue. What do I do to move forward? Here is my thinking: - Sell the nova and buy a delay and reverb pedal (pretty much all I use on the nova, sometimes I use one or two other settings. It'll allow my pedalboard to shrink in size) - Sell the wah, or just remove it from my board. I use it, just not very often. - Buy a Tele (They have a much cleaner tone I hear, which is what I'm after, I think) - Buy a smaller pedalboard ? Oh, one other thing. I usually play publicly with my electric in a church set up. However, my church is small. So, I can't crank my amp. Usually, I have it set to the 5watt setting and have it half way, if that. And because we have some older people, the sound man keeps the overall sound volume low, so my guitar just sounds like a fuzz sound in the background, sounds terrible. Is there a way to get that big, clean sound, at a low volume? I NEED HELP!!!!!

guidothepimmp

guitar > amp is the only way I role! ?

Seriously though... may sound strange but I HATE the way my sound changes with pedals... I just got used to my guit and amp and I havent looked back since. Even gigged like that!

Jacquesg4j

Okay, I'm having a go! We know by now that you get nice tone when you crank that volume, but the fact is that you can't crank it at your regular venue! I had the same issues! We have a 3000 seater church but a super small stage! So I could hardly ever crank my ac30 above 3! I managed, but since I got my pod hd500, it just blew me out of the water! I can gig in a stadium or in a 20seater restaurant and get awesome results! I would look into it if I were you! I can also try and record some clips for you to hear! We also do a lot of JCulture, hillsong type stuff!

kayDUB

I switch between using a 5W (blackheart little giant) and a 40W Fender hotrod, both of which I keep clean and use pedals for drive.
I get a good sound for that big rhythym (dam can never spell that word) type sound with just my fulldrive II (although I also stack it with a timmy).
So I'd definately suggest setting your amp to a good clean sound and using a good pedal for the big drive sound - sure might not be as awesome as cranking an amp, but its more practical ?

Arno-West

At first,lose all the pedals and get a decent clean sound through the amp. This shouldn't be difficult with that Strat. Then add pedals 1 by 1 and when the sound goes pear shaped, you've found your culprit. I would personally use the amps clean and dirty channels for rhythm playing and add in a pedal of some sort to boost volume for lead playing. A wise guitarist once told me simpler is better.

guitarboy2828

kayDUB wrote So I'd definately suggest setting your amp to a good clean sound and using a good pedal for the big drive sound - sure might not be as awesome as cranking an amp, but its more practical ?

I think I'm going to try this method over the next few days and weeks and see if I can get the sound I want using this method.

I think it's great that a lot of people go directly into their amp without pedals, that's cool.. Except, the sound i'm after definitely has delay's and reverbs. I'm "copying" other bands sound, because to some degree I play in a cover band at church ? And, the delay helps fill out the sound, which is very much needed. But, in the short term, I want to try get my sound right before I add that stuff.. ?

Jacquesg4j wrote Okay, I'm having a go! We know by now that you get nice tone when you crank that volume, but the fact is that you can't crank it at your regular venue! I had the same issues! We have a 3000 seater church but a super small stage! So I could hardly ever crank my ac30 above 3! I managed, but since I got my pod hd500, it just blew me out of the water! I can gig in a stadium or in a 20seater restaurant and get awesome results! I would look into it if I were you! I can also try and record some clips for you to hear! We also do a lot of JCulture, hillsong type stuff!

Jacques, I have read that quite a few worship guys use line6 pod's for live use and they get great results, because of the problem of volume levels. I may need to look into that... However, I'm going to try the above method first, as that doesn't requiring a whole gear setup change and buying more gear right away. As far as I know, no one in durban stocks line6 pods? I may be mistake though, so have never actually been able to try one out! ☹

racman

Some great ideas already but here is my contribution Paul:

I have a similar situation and had the issue with just taking so much with me to setup for both practice sessions and for the service.

At times I would take the following:

Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar, Classical Guitar, Electric EFX board, Electric Amp There was a time this was a Fender 4x10 Bassman ...OUCH!!). acoustic pedals, music file and odds and ends bag as well. This just got too much so although I play primarily acoustic like you I have developed the following solution which works for me in my situation.

1) Acoustic Setup: Acoustic Guitar - Ashton Audio TS-808 (true bypass) - Spectrum Aura DI - PA.

I prefer the sound of the D-Tar Solstice but this is only used when I do the occasional solo set (about twice a year).

2) Electric - Volume Pedal - Korg Pitch Black Tuner - Line6 M9 - Tech21 Blonde DI -PA.

I prefer the Korg tuner to the M9 one from a visibility point of view. I bought the Tech 21 from Putman electronics in USA who built in a balanced DI with XLR out due to a fairly long run to our PA.

3) I am building up a separate EFX board for home use (almost there) and still run through a Fender CHamp600 (Ashton Audio Modified to early Blackface spec etc - Yes I am a fan of Matt’s work!! ?) which also has a 2W switch added for home.

So I now take two guitars and a shoulder bag to practice and service when I need to use electric. I made a decision to only use two and that if I needed to use the classical I would make a decision based on the set list and still only confine it to two guitars. (Of course sometimes it is only one).

I am sure that everyone can identify with the endless money and hassle spent in trying to get the best live tone. I have changed my focus somewhat and have realized that, in my environment, there is so much going on that very few people if any, notice the difference between acceptable and excellent tone. So I get a really good tone from my live setup and to my ears an excellent one from my home set-up (Electric - Paisley Drive- Fender Champ 600).

Just a thought but it works for me and has really restored some of the joy of playing live - hope this adds some value to your thought process.

guitarboy2828

RoyC wrote Some great ideas already but here is my contribution Paul:

I have a similar situation and had the issue with just taking so much with me to setup for both practice sessions and for the service.

At times I would take the following:

Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar, Classical Guitar, Electric EFX board, Electric Amp There was a time this was a Fender 4x10 Bassman ...OUCH!!). acoustic pedals, music file and odds and ends bag as well. This just got too much so although I play primarily acoustic like you I have developed the following solution which works for me in my situation.

1) Acoustic Setup: Acoustic Guitar - Ashton Audio TS-808 (true bypass) - Spectrum Aura DI - PA.

I prefer the sound of the D-Tar Solstice but this is only used when I do the occasional solo set (about twice a year).

2) Electric - Volume Pedal - Korg Pitch Black Tuner - Line6 M9 - Tech21 Blonde DI -PA.

I prefer the Korg tuner to the M9 one from a visibility point of view. I bought the Tech 21 from Putman electronics in USA who built in a balanced DI with XLR out due to a fairly long run to our PA.

3) I am building up a separate EFX board for home use (almost there) and still run through a Fender CHamp600 (Ashton Audio Modified to early Blackface spec etc - Yes I am a fan of Matt’s work!! ?) which also has a 2W switch added for home.

So I now take two guitars and a shoulder bag to practice and service when I need to use electric. I made a decision to only use two and that if I needed to use the classical I would make a decision based on the set list and still only confine it to two guitars. (Of course sometimes it is only one).

I am sure that everyone can identify with the endless money and hassle spent in trying to get the best live tone. I have changed my focus somewhat and have realized that, in my environment, there is so much going on that very few people if any, notice the difference between acceptable and excellent tone. So I get a really good tone from my live setup and to my ears an excellent one from my home set-up (Electric - Paisley Drive- Fender Champ 600).

Just a thought but it works for me and has really restored some of the joy of playing live - hope this adds some value to your thought process.

Roy,

I really do appreciate your input in this subject. I am not sure why you use anything but the Zion? ?

I will look into what you have mentioned, have not heard of some of them. I really do want a simple approach, that, as you said, brings the joy back to playing. Because right now, I find I get more frustrated and upset because I can't get it to sound like I want it to sound in my situation.

Thanks for the replies guys, got some good stuff to try out here before buying anything.. And then.. There are a few options to buy some stuff if I decide to try that ?

rikus

I'm by no means an expert, but I'll try and share some thoughts as well.

I don't know whether there is a way to get around the stage volume problem in a church setting without some compromise, but my smaller setup is working well for me. I've got a 5 watt valve amp with an 8" speaker. I swapped my preamp valve to a 5751 for a slightly less gain, meaning that I can turn the amp past twelve and still have "edge of breakup" type cleans with the volume on the guitar backed off slightly. I get my drive via pedals. The Amp is mic'ed up and facing me and it works great. I can turn the gain high enough that the valves are in their happy place and I can always hear myself perfectly because I'm standing on top of the amp and no one ever complains about being too loud (on the contrary our worship leader has once or twice asked me to turn it up slightly ? )

My compromise thought is the 8" speaker, but the amp is so compact and easy to carry around.

I am also loving my pedal board since I did away with the Gt-8 and started just using a couple of stomps...

Great advice though on starting with your tone plugged straight into the amp. For the longest time that was how I played, so my tone is built off that.

AlanRatcliffe

I also think modelling (amp or multieffect) work best in church situations. They are the only things that can give you nice cleans and nice dirt at any volume.

I can also vouch for the Tech 21 Blonde (or possibly the Liverpool if you want Vox tones). Keeps things simple if you prefer not to use a full-blown multieffect/amp modeller and is as compact as many other single pedals. You can even bypass the effect when you play acoustic or want to plug your board into your amp at home. As with any DI solution, you become more dependant on the monitoring, but I usually find that a lot more doable than trying to squeeze a big amp down to a usable volume.

I've sat with my Twin and the Blonde and I can tell you they respond pretty much identically to knob tweaks (although my Twin breaks up sooner thanks to the tubes and biasing) and pedals. I put all the usual effects up front and delays and reverbs after. As an added bonus I can also tweak it to get blonde, tweed and even early Mesa tones.

guitarboy2828

Alan Ratcliffe wrote I also think modelling (amp or multieffect) work best in church situations. They are the only things that can give you nice cleans and nice dirt at any volume.

I can also vouch for the Tech 21 Blonde (or possibly the Liverpool if you want Vox tones). Keeps things simple if you prefer not to use a full-blown multieffect/amp modeller and is as compact as many other single pedals. You can even bypass the effect when you play acoustic or want to plug your board into your amp at home. As with any DI solution, you become more dependant on the monitoring, but I usually find that a lot more doable than trying to squeeze a big amp down to a usable volume.

I've sat with my Twin and the Blonde and I can tell you they respond pretty much identically to knob tweaks (although my Twin breaks up sooner thanks to the tubes and biasing) and pedals. I put all the usual effects up front and delays and reverbs after. As an added bonus I can also tweak it to get blonde, tweed and even early Mesa tones.

Thanks Alan, your opinion is always very highly valued! I must definitely look into those Tech 21's.. Are they available in SA? Do they act as a DI box? So I could plug into that and go straight into the PA? Am I understanding that correctly?

AlanRatcliffe

Yeah they plug right in to the desk. I've heard Marshall keeps stock, but distributor is Microdot in Cape Town: http://www.microdotmusic.com/index.php/contact-us

My recent gig with Valiant Swart I just threw the Blonde and my Barber LTD in my guitar case for the one song that needed guitar (I was mostly on bass). A bit of reverb from the desk and I was stylin'.

rossgun

Only help I know of is ......................http://www.overloud.com/products/th2.php.

racman

re: Tech 21 Blonde

The only reason I had a balanced DI intalled is due the long run I have to the desk which is around 20-30m. But it works great !

Airguitar

There is one issue that has not been discussed here.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall you saying your tone is flat even when plugged directly into the Amp.
What kind of cables do you have?
Sometimes a dodgy cable is the source of all your troubles. Cheap cables are a no-no and often a guitarist will go out, spend R5000 to R25000 on a guitar but then refuse to pay R250 for a decent cable. This includes your Pedal Cables.. It's a bit out of whack but a lot of guys do it.
If you're going to spend money, start there.

Next thing is a solution I have seen used in the church I attend to good effect:-
The guitar amp (A Vox AC30) is set up in a room behind the stage and is well miked.
That way you can open up the amp to find its sweet spot, and mike it accordingly. Try running your amp so that with full volume and tone on the guitar, the amp is in breakup, so you get that nice fat, crunchy sound you're after. Now, when you dial back on your guitar's volume it cleans up for rhythm playing.
This necessitates the use of a wireless system, or some looooong guitar cables, presuming you do have a back room to use. This is kinda cool because the room also has a natural reverb.. The only other effect you might want in the chain is a delay pedal.

Don't have a room? Make one! Get a crate big enough for your amp to fit inside. Line the crate with dense foam, including the lid. Put the Amp into the crate, along with a mike and you have a controlled environment. Be careful with this, as tube amps generate a lot of heat, so some ventilation has to be rigged. A few holes in the top and bottom should be enough to get some convective flow going.

Hope you have enough ideas now..

« Previous Page