My set up is frustrating me!

guitarboy2828

Ok, I don't even know how to start this post. But, I have got pictures, so at least that will help! ?

I mainly play acoustic now, which I love, but on the odd occasion, I want to play electric. However, I really don't like the sound I'm getting, my set up is chucky and a mission to set up and by the end of it, I don't want to play anymore. So, I end up never playing electric.

So, here is my pedalboard:

As you can see, the board is far to big, at first I thought it'd be okay because I'd just buy more pedals to fill it up. But, practically, a board that size is a bit stupid. It doesn't even fit in the boot of my golf. So, that is a problem. I do like the portability of the rockcase though. Would the size small house all my pedals?

The way my set up is run right now is:
Guitar -> Volume -> Wah -> Tonebone -> Looper (when i'm practicing) -> Amp (an Ibanez TSA15)
The Nova system goes into the effects loop

So, right there is like 4 cables going to my amp (2 from Nova, 1 from looper and 1 from amp channel switcher, MISSION)

ON TOP of all of that. Even when I do set it all up and I play, I really can't find a sound I like. It sounds muddy and well, crap! I have a Fender MIM strat, everything is stock. Maybe I need a pickup change?
Here is my guitar:

I play mostly rock/blues style music. It's usually rock/church music, here is a video of a sound that I really like (Listen to just the opening few seconds, the first guitar you hear):
=

So, all that to say. Let's say money wasn't an issue. What do I do to move forward? Here is my thinking:

- Sell the nova and buy a delay and reverb pedal (pretty much all I use on the nova, sometimes I use one or two other settings. It'll allow my pedalboard to shrink in size)
- Sell the wah, or just remove it from my board. I use it, just not very often.
- Buy a Tele (They have a much cleaner tone I hear, which is what I'm after, I think)
- Buy a smaller pedalboard ?

Oh, one other thing. I usually play publicly with my electric in a church set up. However, my church is small. So, I can't crank my amp. Usually, I have it set to the 5watt setting and have it half way, if that. And because we have some older people, the sound man keeps the overall sound volume low, so my guitar just sounds like a fuzz sound in the background, sounds terrible. Is there a way to get that big, clean sound, at a low volume?

I NEED HELP!!!!!

ezietsman

I would start by not using the pedalboard at all. If you cannot get a good tone with just a cable you are wasting your time. I can't believe your strat and that amp gives a 'muddy' sound. Impossible. Sounds to me you need learn the guitar / amp setup first, make that sound good then add stuff, and then only add what you really need. Playing with just a lead is invigorating, there's less fiddling and more playing. Try that for a while. That's my advice.

Edit: For the clean sound, use the higher power setting and to get rid of the fizz lower your drive a lot. You need less gain to cut, and more treble and mids, usually.

makepeace

strat -> wah -> tsa15

?

VellaJ

ez wrote: I would start by not using the pedalboard at all. If you cannot get a good tone with just a cable you are wasting your time. I can't believe your strat and that amp gives a 'muddy' sound. Impossible. Sounds to me you need learn the guitar / amp setup first, make that sound good then add stuff, and then only add what you really need. Playing with just a lead is invigorating, there's less fiddling and more playing. Try that for a while. That's my advice.

+1. I only play using raw tone, guitar straight into the amp. If I do ever use effects, at least I know what the sound is supposed to be if I didn't have them there, and fiddle accordingly.

I also use a Strat, and I get brilliant cleans from it. The Tele is more "twangy" and so it obviously does have a different sound, but a Strat is probably one of the least muddy-sounding guitars I've ever heard. I think your pedals are wreaking havoc with your sound, in that department...

guitarboy2828

Thanks for the responses.. I will say this, I have been playing guitar for a long time and I can play the guitar ?

That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want. Got a nice gritty, rock drive sound. Turn the volume down and it turns into a fuzzy noise.

I'm wondering if maybe I need to have my strat professionally setup? Would this help in that regard? Maybe my string action and pickup hight is causing issues with my tone?

The pedal dilemma is less a problem in tone as it is in ability to use it without spending an hour to set it up. The tone problems come without my pedalboard. That just adds to my overall dilemma.

I will try record my sound tomorrow, however, I'm not sure I will get an accurate recording of it, I can try though.

ezietsman

Paul E wrote: Thanks for the responses.. I will say this, I have been playing guitar for a long time and I can play the guitar ?

That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want. Got a nice gritty, rock drive sound. Turn the volume down and it turns into a fuzzy noise.

I'm wondering if maybe I need to have my strat professionally setup? Would this help in that regard? Maybe my string action and pickup hight is causing issues with my tone?

The pedal dilemma is less a problem in tone as it is in ability to use it without spending an hour to set it up. The tone problems come without my pedalboard. That just adds to my overall dilemma.

I will try record my sound tomorrow, however, I'm not sure I will get an accurate recording of it, I can try though.

We know you can play ? But playing in your room and getting good sound and doing the same with a band with a PA is not the same. If you can get the sound you need and its not overly loud, you should tell the soundman that thats the way it needs to be. The fuzzy noise you refer to is the sound of a valve amp that is only being driven in the preamp, turn it up and the rest of them start adding flavour which is good, but can be loud. Surely on 5 watt is cannot be too loud (for the band) even when dimed?

Sean

Paul E wrote: That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want.

I also play in a small church, and face many of the challenges you have. The key for me was finding a decent "harmonically pleasing to the ear" overdrive tone at a lower volume. It was one of the reasons I got rid of the AC15 and took the AC4TV. It was frustrating having a great tone at home (higher volume) and a mediocre tone in church (lower volume). Believe it or not, I play the little AC4 on the 1 watt setting ? , and it's plenty loud enough for me to hear. It's mic'd up to the PA, so my drive tone is good (good enough for the older folks to appreciate, which I think is a huge endorsement ? ) and not so loud that it's drowning everything out. The downside is that I'm hauling a second amp around for my clean sound, I use a 100watt Yamaha solid state amp for the cleans ...and lets not mention the extra cab for the Vox...so ja, a lot of gear, but it has up till now been my best solution.

guitarboy2828

Sean wrote:
Paul E wrote: That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want.
I also play in a small church, and face many of the challenges you have. The key for me was finding a decent "harmonically pleasing to the ear" overdrive tone at a lower volume. It was one of the reasons I got rid of the AC15 and took the AC4TV. It was frustrating having a great tone at home (higher volume) and a mediocre tone in church (lower volume). Believe it or not, I play the little AC4 on the 1 watt setting ? , and it's plenty loud enough for me to hear. It's mic'd up to the PA, so my drive tone is good (good enough for the older folks to appreciate, which I think is a huge endorsement ? ) and not so loud that it's drowning everything out. The downside is that I'm hauling a second amp around for my clean sound, I use a 100watt Yamaha solid state amp for the cleans ...and lets not mention the extra cab for the Vox...so ja, a lot of gear, but it has up till now been my best solution.

Yeah, I have a feeling I need to invest in a 1watt amp! ? I played a little while ago at a youth camp and had my amp on the 15 watt setting and set it about half way, mic'd. It sounded SO awesome. Seriously, loved the sound. Was clear, crunchy, greatness! But if I had it that loud at my church, in a few weeks, we'd have no one left, except me! ?

What guitar do you play with Sean? Do you lead on electric or just fill in the background? For the most part I'm leading on electric. So it's just big open chords to try do some serious drive. However, that "serious drive" is actually pretty soft. ?

shaundtsl

Please dont throw anything at me.... But would you not consider something like a boss GT10? Could plug straight into a PA maybe and you wouldnt have to carry amps and huge pedal boards around?

Sean

Paul E wrote: What guitar do you play with Sean? Do you lead on electric or just fill in the background?

I use the "Ratocaster" I got from Alan.

Actually, I'm also switching between electric and acoustic (Acoustic DI into PA), depending on the songs. At the moment I'm the only guitarist in the team, so when I'm playing electric, it's rhythm along with some riffs here and there. I use a Vox Big Ben for the riffs and solos.

Warren

Paul E wrote: That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want. Got a nice gritty, rock drive sound. Turn the volume down and it turns into a fuzzy noise.

Paul, do you know about Fletcher-Munson curves?

guitarboy2828

shaundtsl wrote: Please dont throw anything at me.... But would you not consider something like a boss GT10? Could plug straight into a PA maybe and you wouldnt have to carry amps and huge pedal boards around?

Shaun, not a bad suggestion. When I bought my nova system, I was actually deliberating between a GT-10 and a Nova System. I ended up going with the nova because the quality of effects were higher and at the time I thought I was a pro and I needed the pro quality. Looking back, I probably should have gone with the GT-10 or possibly even a Line 6 POD.

That could still be an option, sell what I have and go back to multi-effects. Possibly the Line 6 podHD-500 or something along those lines.. May work better hey? I think I may look into that.. Would be great to try one out before I buy one.. Hmm.. Time to go shopping ?

studmissile

You'd be surprised what a good set of pups will do.
You'll quickly whittle that board down to nothing.

Keira-WitherKay

You have a strat and a tube amp , that's all one needs to rule the world ? jokes asside i too get booked for jazz gigs at low volume in fact i'm playing one in a few hours in a restaurant where i'll have people sitting right by me eating , i also use just a tele straight to the tube amp which is single channel 15 w and i get beautiful clean tone with amp on 5 and the guitar with volume just pulled back a hint and it's full but soft and very pleasant then for your case where you need overdrive just use a pedal and the amps reverb and you can play almost anything ? and have a lush clean tone and distortion or drive set on your pedal to taste , so guitar , tube amp and one drive pedal . But i do believe if you trying to get your drive from the amp you might have a prob cause we all know our amps sound awesome loud and at full setting but once you reduce a 15 w amp to 5 w your tone is sucked out of it . Anyway good luck and i do believe you have all the tools for great tone , so no need to buy gear , but now just find it ?

Reinhard

The problem with using a valve amp to get your drive tone usually leads to volume problems. Even my Deluxe Reverb sounds crap/thin at volume below 4. The drive tone at higer volumes are very nice. So my current setup is a 15/30 into a 2x12 with my pedalboard. I don't use the effects loop. Guitar>pedals>amp. Amp for cleans, pedals for drive, even at low volumes you get good tone.

Hammeron

I'll take the wah off you. ?

guitarboy2828

Keira WitherKay wrote: You have a strat and a tube amp , that's all one needs to rule the world ? jokes asside i too get booked for jazz gigs at low volume in fact i'm playing one in a few hours in a restaurant where i'll have people sitting right by me eating , i also use just a tele straight to the tube amp which is single channel 15 w and i get beautiful clean tone with amp on 5 and the guitar with volume just pulled back a hint and it's full but soft and very pleasant then for your case where you need overdrive just use a pedal and the amps reverb and you can play almost anything ? and have a lush clean tone and distortion or drive set on your pedal to taste , so guitar , tube amp and one drive pedal . But i do believe if you trying to get your drive from the amp you might have a prob cause we all know our amps sound awesome loud and at full setting but once you reduce a 15 w amp to 5 w your tone is sucked out of it . Anyway good luck and i do believe you have all the tools for great tone , so no need to buy gear , but now just find it ?

Keria, I have no idea why, but I didn't even think to try this route of only using the clean channel on my amp. I feel kind of dumb saying that, because that is a pretty good solution I think. ? Thank you ?

Warren wrote:
Paul E wrote: That's just it, plugged straight into my amp, it doesn't sound that great. If I crank the amp, I get the sound I want. Got a nice gritty, rock drive sound. Turn the volume down and it turns into a fuzzy noise.

Paul, do you know about Fletcher-Munson curves?

Warren, I can't say I have heard of that. I did just do a quick google search and read up on wikipedia. I see how that relates to my problem, but how does it add to my solution? ???

VellaJ

Perhaps I've never been exposed to either high-power amps at high volumes, or low power amps at their high volumes, but I've never found a problem with tone with my Peavey, until I take the master volume below 1... Get awesome drive tone throughout the volume "range..."

epictring

If you ever decide to let that pedalboard go, I'll take it ?

singemonkey

Kinda like what EZ said - first things first. Can you get a decent tone by just plugging the guitar into the amp. That's where you start. If you can dime everything and it sounds good, then you don't need to change pickups.