Influences

epictring

Alright, me again ? The dude who had trouble with the guitarist leaving from Welkom.

Now we are gonna do the December gigs and recordings and so on (2011), and we found a new guitarist for 2012. He is an excellent guitarist and his lead playing is amazing, he plays Jimi Hendrix live concerts along with Jimi.

There are however some things that bother me.

His influences differ a lot from us, we are more of a rock outfit and a bit commercial. He, in the other hand has influences like Jimi Hendrix, and such, which is quite a different style of playing. Our music does not contain constant lead parts/sweeping etc. He is very excited over the band and such and he can't wait to start and he likes our music and so on. But is there truly a chance for this to work? I've never jammed with anyone with such different styles so I'm unsure if it's gonna cause unavoidable trouble in the future?
He struggles with rhythm. Yes..he does.. He never learned the basic G, D, C chords with the strumming we all know - he began with scales and so on. When we jammed he struggled doing the rhythm parts of the previous guitarist. I'm sure he'll get it down with practice, the parts aren't hard (in my opinion) at all. The only problem is he never played that style but more of metal triplet techniques and so on. And he can't keep time well. What is the best way to approach this for him to learn as fast as possible to get the band back on stage again?

We are releasing our EP with the "old" band members very soon, and we need to get back on stage after December again to promote it and so on.

Thanks a lot, I think these questions deserved a new thread, hope the mods don't mind.

Hammeron

Maybe he can make your sound a little less commercial?
Jammin', he gotta jam with you, if he plays that well things should fall into place quick.
You do the rythm show him the timing.
Just get together and do it dude!

singemonkey

Sounds like a difficult situation. Maybe ask him to nail down your most basic number from the record (since clearly he can follow records). If he can't manage it in a reasonable amount of time, it'll probably be a sign that he's not going to work out with your group. If he can, well, then he can nail down all the others too.

Kalcium

I think as far as getting the rhythm right and playing in time, Singe and Tamla are spot on, with rhythm show him how it goes slowly, perhaps do the continuous movement thing and show him where the actual strums fit in rather than just playing the rhythm that you know so well... once he gets the rhythm at a slow pace he can start to speed it up and it wont feel awkward.

As for the different styles I think it'd be a good thing, John Mayer does a lot of pop songs and clearly has a huge Jimi Influence. I do think you should make it clear to him though that he wont be getting a huge amount of spotlight or at least mention that not every song has a solo and the ones that do perhaps are quite short generally...Maybe give him some music that is similar to yours or music that influences/influenced all the old members so he can listen to it and get used to it, perhaps he'll find a way to apply the techniques he knows to that style of music and you'll have a great new sound ?

Arno-West

I'd rather have a Malcolm than an Angus in my band. If he can't play the basics, he must go and learn it in his own time and then come back and audition again. The basic chords and rythm is the foundation that everything else is built on. He might be blowing your mind with the JH stuff right now, but that novelty will wear off and then you'll get frustrated at every rehearsal and gig, I know, been there done that.

Bob-Dubery

epictring wrote: He struggles with rhythm. Yes..he does.. He never learned the basic G, D, C chords with the strumming we all know - he began with scales and so on. When we jammed he struggled doing the rhythm parts of the previous guitarist. I'm sure he'll get it down with practice, the parts aren't hard (in my opinion) at all. The only problem is he never played that style but more of metal triplet techniques and so on. And he can't keep time well.

OK... chops and influences are one thing and might be negotiable, good time keeping is not. If a single player in your band has timing issues then the listener will perceive a mess (and they'll be right). Bad timing will be noticed far more than simplistic solos. Bands that are low on chops but have good timing are perceived as "tight". Bands that have fastness of finger but can't keep in time are perceived as sloppy.

Arno-West

X-rated Bob wrote:
epictring wrote: He struggles with rhythm. Yes..he does.. He never learned the basic G, D, C chords with the strumming we all know - he began with scales and so on. When we jammed he struggled doing the rhythm parts of the previous guitarist. I'm sure he'll get it down with practice, the parts aren't hard (in my opinion) at all. The only problem is he never played that style but more of metal triplet techniques and so on. And he can't keep time well.
OK... chops and influences are one thing and might be negotiable, good time keeping is not. If a single player in your band has timing issues then the listener will perceive a mess (and they'll be right). Bad timing will be noticed far more than simplistic solos. Bands that are low on chops but have good timing are perceived as "tight". Bands that have fastness of finger but can't keep in time are perceived as sloppy.

Bob, I think you've wrapped up this discussion. Well spoken - Timing is everything

Malkav

You can't say this

epictring wrote: He is an excellent guitarist and his lead playing is amazing, he plays Jimi Hendrix live concerts along with Jimi.

If you can say this

epictring wrote:
He struggles with rhythm. Yes..he does..

Bob's right, and besides 95% of your set will not be spent playing lead no doubt.

AlanRatcliffe

[EDIT: Took me ages to finish this between other stuff, so excuse me if some is repetition of the fine advice already given]

I wouldn't describe any player that can't keep time or play rhythm as a "good" guitarist - rhythm's 90% of the job (unless you are Steve Vai). Hendrix himself was a monster rhythm player.

But still, differences in style are relatively minor in a working band - a band is a melting pot of all its influences and one of the joys is having the other players take your music to somewhere it would never have gone with only your own influence.

Also, if he is a good lead player, he's already shown some dedication to get to where he is and will hopefully change his focus and apply the same dedication to expanding his playing to include more rhythm and tightening up his timing (well, he'd be a fool if he doesn't). I generally find that the better the player, the more aware they are of their own limitations and the more they are willing to learn. Speak to him about it (and listen to him too - communication is key in any successful band). Accept him as your new guitarist with a two/three/six-month probation period where he has to show he's going to pull his weight.

Quickest way to get him up to speed? Give him recordings of the songs to work with. If he's worth his salt, he'll come back to band practices having put in his personal practice time and improve quickly. The band practices will be more about getting accustomed to playing together, learning each other's feel and honing interplay and stagecraft. Also, don't force him to play another player's parts exactly - let him bring his own feel to the table, which will smooth the transition from one guitarist to the next.

epictring

Thanks Alan. I know he works extremely hard and so on, so I think I should give him a chance and tell him to practice hard this upcoming holiday so that we can start next year with at least some progress. If it doesn't work out, we'll find someone else.