Music stores. An outsider's view.

Lord-Fraquart

Not sure if this is the right section to post this, but here goes anyway. As some of you might know, I had to buy my son a guitar and amp. Not knowing anything about musical instruments, I had to resort to the forum, Google and music stores and their assistants. Well, what an experience.

First of all, why don't music stores put their best price on the equipment they sell? Shopping for musical instruments is like shopping for curtains at Oriental Plaza. You are not sure if you are going to get a better price, but you are forced to ask, otherwise you might just pay sticker price. I like to walk around in a shop, look at the wares and see what is in my budget. Sometimes it is nice just to browse without an assistant tagging along. Some guitars I was offered at R3000 from the sticker price of R4900, but those I was interested in only R200 discount. Now this makes me feel shafted. There is no general markdown of let’s say 25%. So as a customer I am not sure if I am being offered damaged or "past sell by date" goods at the higher discount. It would be nice if the price you see is the price you pay. That way you don't get that feeling of being secretly shafted. People in the industry might disagree with me, but as a first-timer to the industry, the shopping experience left a bad taste.

As for shop assistants, here some made me vow never to visit their shop again. No more so that Music Mate in Pretoria. I went there as it was recommended by my son's music teacher. I had a budget in mind and told the assistant what that was. Every time my eye drifted to a guitar, he would try and sell it to me, no matter that it was 10 times over budget. If I tell the guy I am interested in a guitar under R3k, suited to rock/metal etc, do not try and sell me an electric acoustic for R25k. My only other bad experience was at Jean Village Music in Centurion. Again, it seemed the assistant did not listen to my requirements, but tried to flog me slow moving stock. Sorry, Music Boys in Mall@Reds I thought tried to do the same.

Others that I thought did a brilliant job at selling me what was in my budget and suited my needs were Music connection in Randburg, Oosthavens in Pretoria and Marshall Music in Woodmead. It was an absolute pleasure to deal with the guys there. They had no problem explaining the technicalities of guitars and amps to a novice, demoing equipment and making you feel important as a customer. Next time I need something; this is where I would go.

Bob-Dubery

The question of sticker price V actual price is a recurring topic on GFSA. What it does do, I suppose, is to create some room for the stores to reward loyal customers (or for a salesperson to drop the price to get a sale).

Some stores pay their staff a salary. Others pay their staff on a commission basis. Neither approach is universal and I don't have lists of who pays their staff on what basis. It may explain the difference in sales tactics. In cases where the staff are salaried they have a less immediate interest in selling you the most expensive item they can talk you into buying.

Not that that's any of your problem. Go where you feel you get the best all-round deal.

Warren

Lord Farquart wrote
First of all, why don't music stores put their best price on the equipment they sell? Shopping for musical instruments is like shopping for curtains at Oriental Plaza. You are not sure if you are going to get a better price, but you are forced to ask, otherwise you might just pay sticker price. I like to walk around in a shop, look at the wares and see what is in my budget. Sometimes it is nice just to browse without an assistant tagging along. Some guitars I was offered at R3000 from the sticker price of R4900, but those I was interested in only R200 discount. Now this makes me feel shafted. There is no general markdown of let’s say 25%. So as a customer I am not sure if I am being offered damaged or "past sell by date" goods at the higher discount. It would be nice if the price you see is the price you pay. That way you don't get that feeling of being secretly shafted. People in the industry might disagree with me, but as a first-timer to the industry, the shopping experience left a bad taste.

As Bob mentioned, this has been discussed at great length here. For what it's worth, I agree with you nine-kajillion-percent. The current discounting system is such a pain in the ass...

BMU

Whatever the arguments are, I hope music stores read this. Valuable honest feedback.

Jack-Flash-Jr

Here you go:
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-gear/retail-price-with-discount-or-lower-sticker-price/
It's worth a read ?

Tokai-SA

Lord Farquart wrote Not sure if this is the right section to post this, but here goes anyway. As some of you might know, I had to buy my son a guitar and amp. Not knowing anything about musical instruments, I had to resort to the forum, Google and music stores and their assistants. Well, what an experience.

First of all, why don't music stores put their best price on the equipment they sell? Shopping for musical instruments is like shopping for curtains at Oriental Plaza. You are not sure if you are going to get a better price, but you are forced to ask, otherwise you might just pay sticker price. I like to walk around in a shop, look at the wares and see what is in my budget. Sometimes it is nice just to browse without an assistant tagging along. Some guitars I was offered at R3000 from the sticker price of R4900, but those I was interested in only R200 discount. Now this makes me feel shafted. There is no general markdown of let’s say 25%. So as a customer I am not sure if I am being offered damaged or "past sell by date" goods at the higher discount. It would be nice if the price you see is the price you pay. That way you don't get that feeling of being secretly shafted. People in the industry might disagree with me, but as a first-timer to the industry, the shopping experience left a bad taste.

As for shop assistants, here some made me vow never to visit their shop again. No more so that Music Mate in Pretoria. I went there as it was recommended by my son's music teacher. I had a budget in mind and told the assistant what that was. Every time my eye drifted to a guitar, he would try and sell it to me, no matter that it was 10 times over budget. If I tell the guy I am interested in a guitar under R3k, suited to rock/metal etc, do not try and sell me an electric acoustic for R25k. My only other bad experience was at Jean Village Music in Centurion. Again, it seemed the assistant did not listen to my requirements, but tried to flog me slow moving stock. Sorry, Music Boys in Mall@Reds I thought tried to do the same.

Others that I thought did a brilliant job at selling me what was in my budget and suited my needs were Music connection in Randburg, Oosthavens in Pretoria and Marshall Music in Woodmead. It was an absolute pleasure to deal with the guys there. They had no problem explaining the technicalities of guitars and amps to a novice, demoing equipment and making you feel important as a customer. Next time I need something; this is where I would go.

So which music store did you buy from, and what guitar did you buy?

Keep in mind, every guitarist wants a different method of pricing in music stores, some want to see the full retail price and the discounted price on the same price tag, some only want to see the final discounted price, some don't care what RRP is, some insist on knowing what RRP is, etc, etc.
No matter what Music stores do there'll always be a guitarist who reckons they got it wrong.

Bob-Dubery

Personally I'm getting less and less bothered by the whole sticker price thing. There's never anything to stop you asking whoever is assisting you to sharpen their pencil, and the worse that is going to happen is that they'll say that they can't.

I was in the Levi's store in Cresta a couple of weekends back. Just taking a chance I said to the guy "You don't HAVE to charge the price on the sticker, do you?" He said "buy 4 pairs, any 4 pairs, and I'll give you a discount." I didn't need 4 pairs of jeans, but it's worth asking the question.

Except, of course, when you get to the till at Pick 'n Pay.

Jack-Flash-Jr

X-rated Bob wrote Personally I'm getting less and less bothered by the whole sticker price thing. There's never anything to stop you asking whoever is assisting you to sharpen their pencil, and the worse that is going to happen is that they'll say that they can't.

I was in the Levi's store in Cresta a couple of weekends back. Just taking a chance I said to the guy "You don't HAVE to charge the price on the sticker, do you?" He said "buy 4 pairs, any 4 pairs, and I'll give you a discount." I didn't need 4 pairs of jeans, but it's worth asking the question.

Except, of course, when you get to the till at Pick 'n Pay.

"buy 4 pairs, any 4 pairs, and I'll give you a discount... or leave your crocs in the basket and I'll give you a pair"

?

@Tokai... I think the sample will skew towards actual take home price on sticker, but we've been round that block 11 times ?

flatfourfan

Hmmmm, we just had a post where the poster said don't judge a store on the actions of a salesman. Which music mate are we talking about here? The one just off Hans Strydom????

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience from them, I only have great things to say about them, if you feel like giving them another shot, go in and ask for Harold and tell him Gary sent you......and he had better treat you right.......

Lord-Fraquart

Jack Flash Jr wrote Here you go:
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-gear/retail-price-with-discount-or-lower-sticker-price/
It's worth a read ?

11 pages ??? ? Yup, well worth it. Maybe I should have done a search before posting the second paragraph. Sorry.

Lord-Fraquart

Tokai SA wrote

So which music store did you buy from, and what guitar did you buy?

Keep in mind, every guitarist wants a different method of pricing in music stores, some want to see the full retail price and the discounted price on the same price tag, some only want to see the final discounted price, some don't care what RRP is, some insist on knowing what RRP is, etc, etc.
No matter what Music stores do there'll always be a guitarist who reckons they got it wrong.

Initially I bought the amp from Marhall because they beat all the stores on price. Then I took my son around to look and play with guitars. Bought that from Marshall too. The reason was that he liked a specific guitar there more than the ones the other shops had on display. He took an Epiphone G400. Not what my research said is the best bang for bucks, but it is what he wanted.

I'm not saying that the stores have it wrong with RRP, sticker price and discounted price. If that is how things are done, then so be it. It is confusing for the layman to come in and make sense of what goes on and the feeling he get when making a purchase. If you have 2 guitars hanging next to eachother, the one with a sticker price of R3200 and discounted to R3000, the other R4900 and discounted to R3000 with the one that you are realy interested in having the lowest discount, how would that make you feel? Some people are comfortable with haggling, some not. I am one of the latter and I want to pay what is on the sticker. At the end of the day I suppose it suits certain people and they can't please all. I'll accept that.

Lord-Fraquart

flatfourfan wrote Hmmmm, we just had a post where the poster said don't judge a store on the actions of a salesman. Which music mate are we talking about here? The one just off Hans Strydom????

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience from them, I only have great things to say about them, if you feel like giving them another shot, go in and ask for Harold and tell him Gary sent you......and he had better treat you right.......

Unfortunately yes. Their prices were very good I must say. I think what put me off was the fact that the salesman did not listen to what my requirements were. Therefore he did not show me all the available options in my budget range. We were almost out the door when my wife noticed another row of guitars on display. After a closer look, half of them were in our price range. When I got home and Googled the last guitars, I found out that they were of a higher spec than those the salesman showed us.

It must be difficult for salesmen to give you objective advice and suggest the most bang foe bucks when they flog 5 different brands. Each one will have their own preference. I mean I cannot see myself recommending a Toyota to a friend when I am a Nissan nut myself. ?

I must say I envy you guys that know what you want, what is the best, what to look for and where to get it at the best price.

dee

Lord Farquart wroteOosthavens in Pretoria and Marshall Music in Woodmead. It was an absolute pleasure to deal with the guys there. They had no problem explaining the technicalities of guitars and amps to a novice, demoing equipment and making you feel important as a customer. Next time I need something; this is where I would go.

I've always had an excellent experience with Oosthavens. Great service, and always willing to track something down for you if they don't have it in store.

Tokai-SA

Lord Farquart wrote
Tokai SA wrote

So which music store did you buy from, and what guitar did you buy?

Keep in mind, every guitarist wants a different method of pricing in music stores, some want to see the full retail price and the discounted price on the same price tag, some only want to see the final discounted price, some don't care what RRP is, some insist on knowing what RRP is, etc, etc.
No matter what Music stores do there'll always be a guitarist who reckons they got it wrong.
If you have 2 guitars hanging next to eachother, the one with a sticker price of R3200 and discounted to R3000, the other R4900 and discounted to R3000 with the one that you are realy interested in having the lowest discount, how would that make you feel?

All the best with the guitar & amp...I'm sure your son will get years of fun out of them.
Stuart and Gordon at Marshall are both great guys, you can't go wrong with them.

Keep in mind, music stores don't get the same discount from every guitar brand, some more some less, so they can discount one brand more than another.
Also keep in mind, in South Africa some music stores are distributors themselves, therefore they can give you a bigger discount on their brands.

chris77

I'm like you in that I don't want to haggle. I hate the idea of coming over as an el 'cheapo scrooge. But.... Since joining this forum and learning how music stores' pricing works there is no way in hell I will ever pay sticker price again.

Jack-Flash-Jr

Lord Farquart wrote
Initially I bought the amp from Marhall because they beat all the stores on price. Then I took my son around to look and play with guitars. Bought that from Marshall too. The reason was that he liked a specific guitar there more than the ones the other shops had on display. He took an Epiphone G400. Not what my research said is the best bang for bucks, but it is what he wanted.

Don't underestimate the importance of this... he is far more likely to practice and enjoy his journey on a guitar he has an affinity for than one taken because it's better bang for buck. You did the right thing and you're obviously a cool dad.
Now.........
The big question is......
When are shopping for gear for yourself? ?

sharonzaz

Lord Farquart wrote
flatfourfan wrote Hmmmm, we just had a post where the poster said don't judge a store on the actions of a salesman. Which music mate are we talking about here? The one just off Hans Strydom????

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience from them, I only have great things to say about them, if you feel like giving them another shot, go in and ask for Harold and tell him Gary sent you......and he had better treat you right.......

Unfortunately yes. Their prices were very good I must say. I think what put me off was the fact that the salesman did not listen to what my requirements were. Therefore he did not show me all the available options in my budget range. We were almost out the door when my wife noticed another row of guitars on display. After a closer look, half of them were in our price range. When I got home and Googled the last guitars, I found out that they were of a higher spec than those the salesman showed us.

It must be difficult for salesmen to give you objective advice and suggest the most bang foe bucks when they flog 5 different brands. Each one will have their own preference. I mean I cannot see myself recommending a Toyota to a friend when I am a Nissan nut myself. ?

I must say I envy you guys that know what you want, what is the best, what to look for and where to get it at the best price.

This is MY shop!! and by that i mean, that is where i make most\all my buying.
I will show this to the owner.
who was the sales dude?

very sad, as I rate them best in service and I have been buying from everyone, and ended up staying loyal
to them as I dont think any other shop comes close, service wise.

you can forward the guy's name in PVT if you dont want to do so in public.

when were you there? you must have bumped into me there, as I have been there almost everyday now for the last few days
as the guitar tech has been fixing one of my guitars.
?

flatfourfan

sharonzaz wrote
This is MY shop!! and by that i mean, that is where i make most\all my buying.
I will show this to the owner.
who was the sales dude?

very sad, as I rate them best in service and I have been buying from everyone, and ended up staying loyal
to them as I dont think any other shop comes close, service wise.

you can forward the guy's name in PVT if you dont want to do so in public.

when were you there? you must have bumped into me there, as I have been there almost everyday now for the last few days
as the guitar tech has been fixing one of my guitars.
?

I agree 100% with you on that, I've known Barry for quite a while and have known the guys in there to be always helpful. Always and only deal with Harold and he runs around getting stuff for me when they don't have in stock. Top notch crew.

sharonzaz

Spoken to Guillaume (owner) and showed him the thread and he
has spoken to his staff and taken whatever action to make sure this do not repeat.

anyhow, congrats on the new axe, hope your son enjoys it ?

Lord-Fraquart

Jack Flash Jr wrote

Don't underestimate the importance of this... he is far more likely to practice and enjoy his journey on a guitar he has an affinity for than one taken because it's better bang for buck. You did the right thing and you're obviously a cool dad.
Now.........
The big question is......
When are shopping for gear for yourself? ?

I was told you have to walk before you run, so I bought him an acoustic to start with. Bad decision methinks. He is just not into the sound of it. So this time, although I think I did my homework, I bought him what he wanted. Hopefully that will give him the motivation he needs.

I'm not going to shop yet. I will play around with his first. I would absolutely love to be able to play guitar. I was only allowed to play the triangel in school. ☹ How do I get started? My work does not allow me to go for lessons etc. Is there a DVD or something for dummies that you can suggest?