Kemper vs AxeFX

ryanguit · 2011-10-29T19:34:04+00:00

ok so please only post if you've at least tried one of the items, I'm not looking for fanboys/salesmen. I have tried neither but will be soon as there is a k...

Kemper vs AxeFX

ryanguit

thanks all. but yes im still waiting for strengths and weaknesses...

i have weaknesses:
AxeFX and Kemper: not cheap, don't have tubes.
and strengths: best at their respective paths of emulation.
AxeFX tries to get sound of amps and includes convolution so you can add mic'd cabs after your "fake amp that sounds real"
Kemper tries to get sound of mic'd amps... and possbly gets them pretty close. When i record a take. its usually a snapshot. if i can reduce mic placement and setup time then it rocks!

new questions:
What thing can i bypass the "emulation" piece and only use convolution...for live?
Guitar->tube amp...speaker out->
old redbox without emulation engaged->
THING-> PA and -> Speaker cab...
that way i can have my tubes in my signal path and no-one can tell me that my Great Tone is not real

cheers

ruvann

MikeM wrote: ^5 for that man. Lets be objective about this. I must say reading through the first page, you came across as massively biased towards Axe-Fx.

That's always the problem with online stuff, isn't it hahaha you can't post your intentions in text and then things come out wrong and then you find yourself facepalming later and race for the edit button, only to make another mistake when you're in a hurry and the facepalming starts all over again hahaha

ryanguit wrote: thanks all. but yes im still waiting for strengths and weaknesses...

i have weaknesses:
AxeFX and Kemper: not cheap, don't have tubes.
and strengths: best at their respective paths of emulation.
AxeFX tries to get sound of amps and includes convolution so you can add mic'd cabs after your "fake amp that sounds real"
Kemper tries to get sound of mic'd amps... and possbly gets them pretty close. When i record a take. its usually a snapshot. if i can reduce mic placement and setup time then it rocks!

new questions:
What thing can i bypass the "emulation" piece and only use convolution...for live?
Guitar->tube amp...speaker out->
old redbox without emulation engaged->
THING-> PA and -> Speaker cab...
that way i can have my tubes in my signal path and no-one can tell me that my Great Tone is not real

cheers

Sorry, can you clarify that last question please. Not sure exactly what you mean.
Do you want to take the signal coming out of the tube amp, send it to a some unit used only for a guitar cabinet IR, and then a signal without the convolution goes straight into a real guitar cabinet on stage used for monitoring?

Usual connections with the Axe-FX is
1. Use it as an entire rig. Amp, effects and cabinet straight into a FRFR (full range, flat response) system, like going straight into the PA.

2. Used with the four-cable method where the Axe-FX is used only as an effects unit plugged into the effects loop of an amp.

3. Another kind of "variation" of the four cable setup is plugging the guitar into the AFX, out of the AFX's effects loop into the input of the amp going through the preamp stage, out of the amp's effects loop back into the AFX, then out of the AFX again, back into amp, through the poweramp and into the guitar cab.
With this setup a person can have effects before and after the amp's preamp.

4. Used as a preamp and then plugging into a seperate poweramp into a guitar cabinet.

ryanguit

technically i want my live sound to stay as is... but i want the PA feed to sound like the engineer wasn't retarded.
I'm sure both units can emulate stuff effectively, but which one is the simplest to use for just an IR so the PA sound isn't sound-guy-put-the-mic-funny-tonight. so the DI is between head and cab, and just the cab has to be emulated. all the stuff the tubes have to, they do. i own a redbox and even a bad convolution kills that.

if the Kemper/AxeFX can capture the whole thing even 90% i'm not going to carry my rig... but i will still use a pre IR send to a poweramp and real cab for monitor...
can they both do that? (the pre Cabinet send and the post cabinet modelling to PA simultaneously) all the stuff on youtube is based on direct to PA/soundcard comparisons... so i guess I'm just going to have to hear them in person and make up my damn mind.

which unit is really good at being a glorified redbox/cab sim.
overkill? i dont care the HD series couldn't... not even close

ruvann

ryanguit wrote: technically i want my live sound to stay as is... but i want the PA feed to sound like the engineer wasn't retarded.
I'm sure both units can emulate stuff effectively, but which one is the simplest to use for just an IR so the PA sound isn't sound-guy-put-the-mic-funny-tonight. so the DI is between head and cab, and just the cab has to be emulated. all the stuff the tubes have to, they do. i own a redbox and even a bad convolution kills that.

if the Kemper/AxeFX can capture the whole thing even 90% i'm not going to carry my rig... but i will still use a pre IR send to a poweramp and real cab for monitor...
can they both do that? (the pre Cabinet send and the post cabinet modelling to PA simultaneously) all the stuff on youtube is based on direct to PA/soundcard comparisons... so i guess I'm just going to have to hear them in person and make up my damn mind.

which unit is really good at being a glorified redbox/cab sim.
overkill? i dont care the HD series couldn't... not even close

Oh ok now I get it. But yeah, a friend told me that they once played a gig where they "sound engineer" told him when he he moved the mic to another position, that he isn't allowed to do that because he "doesn't know what the PA sounds like"?!? WTF!
That's why I also think it's a good idea to take the mic-the-cab part out of the engineers' list of things-to-do. Haha

So with your setup as it is now, you're already set to have signal from the amp split into two, one for a convolution unit and another for the cab. Isn't the Axe-FX then a bit expensive to use just for convolution hehe ?

Don't know about the Kemper, but I'll just tell you what is possible With the Axe-FX.
Yes to everything hehe
Seriously though, yes you can send out a signal before your cab IR so you have a signal going to a guitar cab and then another signal for the sound guy.
You have two stereo outputs. Also having global delay, EQ and reverb settings, you have seperate graphic EQs that will affect each OUTPUT of the Axe-FX, thus EQing everything coming out the AFX and then you can also increase/decrease the reverb and delay mix of all patches with the global settings.

That's kind of how I use it now, except I don't take an output right before the cab IR, I take it before everything, so when recording, I have a dry signal that I can use for reamping.

There probably exists something like convolution rackmount gear, maybe/maybe not. I also don't know about their I/O capabilities.
The AFX has space for ten custom IRs. Axe-FX II has a lot more slots. You can either make your own IR or buy them. I bought all the Redwirez cabs and it's something like 30000+ IRs.
I you know what you want then one cab model is only a couple of dollars and you get like 14 mic models, 10 distances each and 4-6 different speaker positions (Cap, Cap Edge, Cone, Cone Edge, and sometimes cap off-axis and cap edge off-axis).

There's a free cab IR on Redwirez website to check out. A Marshall 1960A cab with Celestions G12m speakers.

ryanguit

there isn't any convolution hardware yet. there is a vst hardware host tho (a windows machine in disguise). so the only 2 products that can load your own IR using anything similar are these 2 things. the reason the kemper is so impressive is that it can model an amp (preamp included) quickly and more accurately than anything yet made. The AxeFX is a state-of-the-art processor that can take convolution IR's. i can't even find a convolution reverb that can take custom IR's... everything in that line of business is now done by vst/Rtas/AU plugins...

so i guess it starts at R16000

Thanks for all your help guys...

Malkav

ryanguit wrote: so the only 2 products that can load your own IR using anything similar are these 2 things.

I'm not too sure about that, I know certain ranges of Blackstar amps come with IR modelling outputs - I don't know if you can load your own IRs but maybe now that they've dipped their toes in the water they'll give it a try sometime soon. I do however know that DAR is releasing an IR modelling box to be used with any amplifier which will store 10 different Hi-res IR cabs, it's a part of their Future Breed Machine line, the Meshuggah guys signature stuffs ?

ruvann

Tokai SA pointed out that the Axe-FX is getting a "profiling" feature, I went to check but I see it's just the Axe-FX II that will gain the ability to make cab impulse responses from the unit.

I'm still trying to find out more about the Kemper but I think since it's such a new unit, there isn't much info. There's a little bit of info is in the FAQ on their website, but not much about features and capabilities of the unit....

Keira-WitherKay

Well we have the kemper representative in sa here on the forum , tokai sa so i guess forum rules states he may not talk openly on forum about his product but hey sure if you genuinely interested arrange to see a unit he has here and sure all your questions will be answered . Cos endless debate is useless and will just get you opinion so go demo the real thing if you in the market for one .

ruvann

Just trying to get info for the OP and figure out the facts and inform the OP of any relevant info I find since not too many people have a Kemper or an Axe-FX and it's the opinions that can help him figure out which would best satisfy his needs. ?

I'll test the unit at some point but not in the market for one.

ryanguit

hey so i played the kemper on Tuesday afternoon... thanks to Dewald at T.O.M.S. who recorded these mess arounds, and TokaiSA for uploading them:
everything is my tele partscaster... which has a bit of a buzz here and there and has no shielding yet. oops.

i wasn't testing gain settings, as i wanted to get an idea of how well they replicate the subtle things about the tube amps they replicate.
so yeah: the fact that it hits these tones so crazy close scares me a lot. i didn't turn 1 EQ knob. flat flat flat. did play with the gain knob slightly... out of curiousity.

ok here is the low down so far:
this unit super impressed me as it sounded exactly like there was an amp in the booth being close mic'd without all the BS of trying to find the perfect spot.
IT WASN'T amazing cos of how lush the reverb or great the delays or huge the sounds were... It was as real as i've heard. and Ive had some terrible times in studio where the spot just can't be found for both the heavier stuff and clean stuff so this was ______ crazy.

best parts:
AC30-2 clip near 2:40-4:30ish
AC30-1 clip 2:20-end (cos i don't understand chorus)
Bad-cat-1 this whole clip is long... i was talking the whole time cos i was in love,
4min is harder playing til 5:30.
7:00 onward is me trying to get the fake speakers to work hard haha.
turned up the fake gain at 7:43 til end i'm just smiling and wondering where the amp is hiding.

OK now i need to meke an apointment to jam the AxeFX... End of the world as we know it?

Tokai-SA

If it aint got tubes in it then it's not worthy for Guitar Forum guitarists to even comment. ?

:?

You're one hell of a guitarist Ryan, loved your playing...you'd sound so much better through tubes though. ?

BMU

Well I think it's awesome, very useful post with the soundclips. Now when do we get the Kemper VST plugin. ?

And I really love the quote in ryanguit's sig re. cloning a goat. Lol.