Satriani
I see this topic has been forgotten by everybody lol. I understand the apprehension with learning the modes and their application in music, cause usually the way it's taught is disconcerting and boring. TO mathematical and scientific. IF anybody wants, I'm happy to start an entire topic under lessons for the modes, and slowly explain each one. It takes alot of typing tho, so I'd like to find out if anybody actually want to know.
FenderBender
Well I'm keen if you've got the time Satch ?
Renesongs
Hey Sach - When I teach modes I hear myself going off into a mathematical drone about number theory and the origins of the universe ☹ I would greatly appreciate your take on modes 8)
Satriani
Ok, as long as it helps even one person, that's good enough for me. I'll start a separate topic for each mode under Lessons. Also please check out Norio's E-book, looks really nice and pretty self explanatory unless you don't know what formulas mean or how you use them (in my experience, that happens often).
Vintage-Vibe
Hi guys
Norio - downloaded pdf, will read through.
Very keen 2 get into this (I'm really enjoying harmony theory elements at the mo) - particularly interested in your ideas Rene - everyone seems to have a different approach
I always give mode, interval formula, the chordal "best friends", best genre application & cliched solo example from a well-known song.
Have that Gambale DVD where he explains the modes from a I-IV-V chordal perspective for context.
I always felt not knowing theory is like not being able to speak the complete language of music - good 2 c we aren't all just exploding from GAS ! ?
VV
Renesongs
everyone seems to have a different approach
that's exactly what I'm after - I understand modes from a "numbers" perspective but my problem is trying to teach it to guys that completely number phobic.
arjunmenon
Hi Rene,
I had a student who was bad with numbers and i used a shape-based approach to teach him the modes, and once his ear latched on to the tones, he got the hang of how it works.
Cheers
Renesongs
Thanks for the advice Arjun - I have a shape based approach that I use, I think I will try not to pontificate about the glories of number theory and music when I teach it ? But seriously when ever I see a lesson on modes or chord intervals no matter how well I think I know it I check it out and every once in a while I am pleased to see that there is another way to see the whole Elephant.
NorioDS
The numbers approach seems to work well for me. I learned every 3 note-per-string box available in the C-Major scale and now I use them to learn how to use the other modes effectively.
For example, using the notes of the C-Major scale of a D-minor progression, you're essentially playing D-Dorian. It's such an EASY way of getting a practical grasp of modes. You quickly learn which phrases work where but, sadly, I haven't been able to practise much lately ☹
NB: I'm trying to improve my chord vocabulary so that I'm not limited to power chords and farmer-brown (thanks Meir ?) chords when practising. I think that will help stax.
You guys have more advice to help me with getting a practical grasp on playing modally?
Renesongs
I learned every 3 note-per-string box
This is an excellent pattern for metal (shredders?) because you can put your gain right up and use plenty of hammer ons and pull offs to get a blistering speed EVH style. Your ultimate goal there is to learn to go into 3+ octaves and run the whole neck. The downside is that it blurs the boundaries of mode. e.g. if you start in Dorian you end in Phrygian.
For example, using the notes of the C-Major scale of a D-minor progression, you're essentially playing D-Dorian.
This is a common mistake. Dorian Phrygian and Aeolian are minor modes but Aeolian is THE relative minor scale to the major. So if you are in C major you can play in A minor or A Aeolian mode as well
I'm trying to improve my chord vocabulary
Best to look for a lesson on how chords are constructed on the net. - I would love to share all these secrets with you guys at GFSA but what takes an hour to teach orally takes about 12 hours to type up in to a manually. I then have no indication of whether the reader understood it or not. - So Kudos to Satriani who is making a mammoth effort to teach modes on this forum, and of course to you who have laboured lovingly at your eBook.
What has occurred to me before is for me to publish my summery tables on this forum and then let everybody ask me what it all means - It might work - I don't know.
NorioDS
Rene, I think I mis-communicated myself. What I do is play, for example, D5-G5-A5 and then improvise over that using notes from C-Major scale, turning it, effectively, into the D-Dorian mode. Right?
I've got pretty chord theory but it's putting it into practise that is lacking for me. Honestly, I think I have all the resources I need right in front of me but I just don't commit enough time and energy into really DOING it. Guilty as charged ☹
Renesongs
OK D5/G5/A5 - These are neither minor nor major chords (no 3rds). Therefore you could be in D major or D minor.
The Dorian of D major is E. The Dorian of D minor (F major) is G. Don't take my word for it lay down a backtrack of chords and test drive it.
Next take the Blues scale 1-b3-4-b5-5-6 play it against your backtrack in B position - does that sound any good? ?
Satriani
So I'm slacking off ALREADY on carrying on demystifying modes cause I'm so busy learning this damn pedal! I will start on the 2nd mode Dorian now (under lessons again)
I must also do a new topic on chords, where they comes from, and how to approach them from a user friendly point of view I guess.
I'll start a new topic called Chord Building under Lessons.
NorioDS
I hear you Rene, I stick to power chords to make it easier to play along to so, definitely, neither major nor minor. However, that means that I can play D-Dorian over the chords and the improv-notes will "colour" the chords towards Dorian's more minor sound, yes?
My understanding is that the notes of the C Major scale, played from C to C are the C Major scale. Those same notes played from D to D are the D Dorian.
Surely this is right? It's been working until now (I think ?)
Renesongs
I think you need to practically try what I what I suggested i.e. back track the D5/G5/A5 progression and then play D Dorian, E Dorian, G Dorian and maybe B Blues, decide which is giving you the sound you like - then I'll tell you why. ?
PS there is no right answer here there are just different perspectives, all things in music are relative to where you are standing.
NorioDS
Can't play right now because laptop died over the weekend and I don't have an amp ?
Maybe you can tell me now ?
Renesongs
This would be better understood if you were able to listen and hear the subtle differences but here goes. A little background. Every Scale has a set of Major, Minor and Dominant chords that match them perfectly. The classical major scale has I-Maj II-min, III-min, IV-Maj V-7 VI-min VII-min7(-5) e.g. C / Dm / Em / F / G7 / Am / Bm7-5 are the chords of C. By far the most predominant progression about in contemporary music is the I/IV/V ( C / F / G) and it's minor counterpart VI/II/III (Am / Dm / Em).
Your progression D5/G5/A5 could pass itself off as a I/IV/V D/G/A which puts it in the key of D (E is Dorian) or it could pass as VI/II/III (Dm/Gm/Am) which puts it in the Key of F (G is Dorian).
However if you say that D Dorian works well then you are in the key of C maj which makes your progression a II/V/VI which suggest that your chords should really be (Dm/G7/Am) an example of this progression is Santana's Black Magic Woman lead is played in D dorian although is more like (Dm/Am/Dm/G7/Dm/Am/Dm/ -)
NorioDS
And that's why I need more chord lessons ? Thanks Rene. I'm going to have to learn a lot more about chords and their relationship with scales before I can fully get my head around what you just said. At least we have our car back so lessons becomes a possibility again!
Once again, thanks ?
Renesongs
Coincidentally Satriani (Meir) posted a great lesson on chord construction yesterday that I suggest you take a gander at. ?
NorioDS
I did ? He's my guitar teacher so I've already learned chord-construction stuff but only the basics for now. I need to go back for some more lessons!
