Pro Tools 10

DrGonzo

So Pro Tools 10 just released...
Jeez that was quick - The rate these companies release new versions of software is astounding...

http://www.avid.com/US/products/Pro-Tools-Software/

Im pretty sure they have there motives...as instead of making another update to fix bugs, they just throw on a couple of features and make you pay like $300 for the new one...

The new updates seem a bit unexciting tho - i always laugh at those AVID promo videos and how these pros are going on about these "Revolutionary new features" like: Automatic Delay Compensation and now wit pt10 - "wow!!" - new clip based gain and real time fades oh and a new 32 bit floating point capability etc... All of the above features have been a staple in Cubase and im sure many other native platforms for last frikken 10 years... ha ?

But corporate bollocks aside aside PT is cool and Im gonna hope to get a copy of this in the new year! 8)

AlanRatcliffe

PT has always lagged behind, but when they do (finally) introduce a feature, it is usually stable. It took them a decade or more to add MIDI and it was still still quite clunky in comparison to Cakewalk and Cubase last time I looked. Although to be fair, both Cakewalk and Cubase started life as MIDI sequencers and only added audio in later, so they had quite a headstart.

But yeah, the DAW manufacturers are all releasing on a yearly basis these days. They are all big companies now and have to keep the revenue rolling in to support all the overheads and can't afford to lose new sales to the competition (and new buyers are always going to go for the DAW with the latest, greatest features). I started skipping versions quite a while back and haven't upgraded for a few years now - and to be honest, even the version I have now does more than I'll ever need. Still, I'll have to upgrade at some point because older machines start getting less reliable and computer hardware standards march onward and upward and you need the newer software to take advantage of it. Once you go DAW, you lock yourself into an eternal cycle of upgrades.

I can remember when each new version of software was a major step forward because they were still playing catch-up with the analog audio gear. And the awkward period where you had to have both and had to make them work together in some semblance of reliability and efficiency. Lawks! I just got to remembering having to sync sequencers to recorders (both analog tape and digital ADAT machines) with SMPTE timecode (and trying to get it to work when the tape had been reused 10,000 times before you got to use it). The integration of everything together into the modern DAW makes everything so easy.

DrGonzo

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I can remember when each new version of software was a major step forward because they were still playing catch-up with the analog audio gear. And the awkward period where you had to have both and had to make them work together in some semblance of reliability and efficiency. Lawks! I just got to remembering having to sync sequencers to recorders (both analog tape and digital ADAT machines) with SMPTE timecode (and trying to get it to work when the tape had been reused 10,000 times before you got to use it). The integration of everything together into the modern DAW makes everything so easy.

sheesh thats way before my time - I always felt that i have missed out on the roots of audio and been handed everything on a silver spoon - If you give me a tape machine i wouldnt have the faintest idea whats what! By the time is started using DAW (2007) everything was already so advanced and featuresome!

Anyway back to the modern age - So your a Sonar user? I see a unanimous dissapointment on the new X1? have you tried it? whats your thoughts?
I actually just recently downgraded back to Cubase 5 from Cubase 6 - Nothing wrong with 6 I just dont like the new GUI and it overall feels different... and the new quantise and stretch features are really good, but i am running Pro tools 9 as well and that covers the audio side in every way i could want...

its weird. I think there is quite a bit of psychology involved with DAW's - thats probably why Logic PRO and PRO tools users immediately think they are professional! Shiny interface and years of cleverly implemented marketing behind there name... :?

AlanRatcliffe

DrGonzo wrote: I always felt that i have missed out on the roots of audio and been handed everything on a silver spoon - If you give me a tape machine i wouldnt have the faintest idea whats what! By the time is started using DAW (2007) everything was already so advanced and featuresome!

Well, I missed out on the earlier days of recording, when mic choice and positioning was everything. Sure, we covered mic positioning in detail, but it paled into insignificance when compared to the "old guys" who were around when each of the (now classic) mics came out and they would spend years learning exactly what each mic could do. My lecturer could listen to someone play any instrument for a few seconds and choose the best mic to suit the player, the gear and the part - every time. We all learn on what is available in our era. As long as you are well-grounded in the basic theory, it can be applied to any technology.

So your a Sonar user? I see a unanimous dissapointment on the new X1? have you tried it? whats your thoughts?

I've skipped it. I always avoid the first version of a major shift (Like ProAudio to Sonar or Cubase VST32 to SX). It's like Windows, where you should always avoid the new version until the at least the first service pack is out.

domhatch

meh. this weekend i buy my license for reaper. lucky me - i don't need all 'em hectic bells and whistles. can't afford 'em (plus i don't got the skills to justify 'em!).

the audio engineers i work with should sho' nuff be falling over their own feet about it though!
dh

DrGonzo

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
So your a Sonar user? I see a unanimous dissapointment on the new X1? have you tried it? whats your thoughts?
I've skipped it. I always avoid the first version of a major shift (Like ProAudio to Sonar or Cubase VST32 to SX). It's like Windows, where you should always avoid the new version until the at least the first service pack is out.

Yeah thats my way of thinking now as well - was perfectly happy with Cubase 5 and then i jumped as soon as the new release - i think i will wait for Cubase 6.5 in a couple of months and see what happens there...

Same reason why i have been avoiding the shift to OS Lion... If it aint broke...

BMU

From what I understand PT doesn't really have bells & whistles that Reaper doesn't have. It's a misconception just because Reaper is so cheap. Reaper is frikkin' deep. Go buy that license! ?

domhatch

BMU wrote: From what I understand PT doesn't really have bells & whistles that Reaper doesn't have. It's a misconception just because Reaper is so cheap. Reaper is frikkin' deep. Go buy that license! ?

you're preaching to the choir man, preaching to the choir. that $60 is already pre-budgeted.

DrGonzo

BMU wrote: From what I understand PT doesn't really have bells & whistles that Reaper doesn't have. It's a misconception just because Reaper is so cheap. Reaper is frikkin' deep. Go buy that license! ?

You understand correctly sir! As stated above they are playing catch up now with many features that the native DAW platforms have had for a while...

It is still undoubtedly a platform you have to learn (or at least be able to use) if u want to pursue a career in Pro audio engineering... I see it as a sound engineers program, not a musicians program...

for Music production/composition/ fooling around my combo of Cubase and Ableton will win everytime... ?

domhatch

DrGonzo wrote: You understand correctly sir! As stated above they are playing catch up now with many features that the native DAW platforms have had for a while...

It is still undoubtedly a platform you have to learn (or at least be able to use) if u want to pursue a career in Pro audio engineering... I see it as a sound engineers program, not a musicians program...

for Music production/composition/ fooling around my combo of Cubase and Ableton will win everytime... ?

one of the main reasons (sic) i'm going with reaper is that it's very similar in feel, layout and usage to cakewalk (9), which was my first. that, and it's damn good and dirt cheap. now all i have to do is get my head around vst's!

Mo-Facta

An interesting post by a former employee of Avid after being fired:

Right now, about 2000 left, worldwide. I am a former employee. I was part of M-Audio (Senior Test Engineer for Keys/MIDI) and began testing pro tools later. I was one of the very few very lucky individuals who was told "you're gone as of 6 months from now." At least I had some notice. I have a lot of friends on the inside still, and none of them are happy. Many of them are scared and just want to keep their jobs. All of them are depressed because they've lost friends and colleagues, and not one of the executives can make a coherent (or less honest, "feel-good") excuse why...other than "Gary thinks if we outsource all your jobs to the Ukraine we can fire you and get four people for what we were paying you".

This is true to a certain extent. They can get four bodies for a single one of our 40-50k per year salaries. Labor is cheap in the near-third world.

Gary Greenfield is, however, the CEO AND chairman of the Board at Avid, so he calls the shots. He is also deep in the pockets of Blum Capital Partners, who have quietly been buying Avid stock for four years, and now own 8.5 million of 39 million total shares.

Gary, the CEO who never worked in the arts or real tech before Avid, is a typical harvard MBA and he's decided that the future of Avid is in the High-End broadcast/movie/post realm, which is why he's giving only as much of a toot about customers like us as he has to for now. His right hand, Kirk Arnold, ain't much better. She's the "lady executive" who likes to show everybody how hip and tough she is by throwing out F-Bombs at company meetings (because THATS CLASSY), but is also the kind of person who flies first class and shows up in a limousine to tell you you're all being fired because the company is bleeding money and has to survive. That actually happened.

Honestly, I would not be surprised if He were trying to drive the stock down so Blum could try to take it private. The stock has never been lower in 20 years.

I'm bummed out. I really love Pro Tools (still use it every day) and I can tell you that the folks in the ranks (Digi, M-Audio) who make it (and all the gear) love it too, and love being a part of so many lives who make music with it. No joke, they do it for love. Nothing lights up their under-paid souls more than seeing a pro tools or any customer for that matter put hands on the new shiny thing and say "THAT ROCKS!" I speak from experience.

Avid has a very serious problem. It went into the toilet because it lacked leadership and vision and had no idea what the future would bring.

It still lacks leadership and vision, and still doesn't know what the future will bring. It is scrambling to stay afloat and woo back lost post/broadcast customers right now, and that is the ONLY focus, no matter what spin they feed you. Everything else the company does, Pro Tools, etc, is tertiary, and feeds into their future desire to bring PT and MC together as a single unit.

I can't count how many E-Staff members we in the ranks would try to encourage or plead to just listen to those of us who had a little vision and the ability to think differently. Not one of them ever did, to my knowledge...except LeBolt. Dave LeBolt was the only guy who ever did. When they pushed him out, many of us knew it was over.

Cheers ?

singemonkey

Mo Facta wrote:

This is true to a certain extent. They can get four bodies for a single one of our 40-50k per year salaries. Labor is cheap in the near-third world.

Just an irrelevant factoid on the "near-third world" If anyone wonders why there's a 1st world and a 3rd world, the former Soviet bloc (as in, The Ukraine) was the "2nd World." Maybe it still is.

majestikc

My biggest regret with permanently switching to Reaper is WHY DIDN'T I DO IT SOONER!

Having come from Pro Tools and Sonar (some Logic and Cubase as well) all I can say is good riddance, Reaper is the priest and pro tools is the alter boy :?

I think the misconception comes, perhaps, from the guys that have never used pro tools full on and see it as this big "pro" almost mythical thing (kind of like seeing the pictures of the big SSL/Neve consoles in the big studios).

Anybody who thinks they've been short changed by using Reaper is VERY mistaken.

Manfred-Klose

funny how to pro tools thread changed to a reaper thread ?

reaper is the way to go. plus there is loads of freeware plugins on the internet that actually sound good, it alows you to save on software, and rather spend the money on good mics and pre amps.

BMU

That post of Mo Facta's makes me sad, (I mean assuming it's all true and stuff). I always feel for skilled, good people trapped in situations/organizations like that.

Yah Reaper. Good piece of kit. Got sidechain compression working the other day after a short delve in the manual, no problem. I've posted on how to do guitar synthesis using Reaper's built-in tuner. The built-in parametric EQ lets you add as many bands as you like. Same with the multiband comp - no imposed limits, seems to be Reaper philosophy. Very enjoyable.

I switched from Cubase over frustration with their non-response on niggling issues with their MIDI editor. Then discovered that lo and behold, the MIDI editor is Reaper's biggest source of wtf moments, glitches and bugs. The difference is, these things get fixed with astonishing regularity. It's improving literally monthly. Try get that out of Steinberg/Avid/whoever.

My only fear is succession. They're only three guys I think (how the hell do they pull it off..but I digress), if Justin whatsisname (main dude, Winamp guy..oh yes Frankel ) gets run over by a bus (god forbid)...?

BMU

Ahahaha how's that, just after typing previous post saw another Reaper update fresh out, fixing a whole page list of stuff, loads of them in the MIDI editor. See? See? ?

DrGonzo

Manfred Klose wrote: funny how to pro tools thread changed to a reaper thread ?

reaper is the way to go. plus there is loads of freeware plugins on the internet that actually sound good, it alows you to save on software, and rather spend the money on good mics and pre amps.

Yep, as to be expected- GFSA has some serious reaper fanboyism! ?
They have a very well tailored business model and "anti-corporate" marketing strategy that seems to be working very well especially in this day and age.

It looks like a sweet program tho, good feature set etc.
I downloaded the demo just didnt get on with it as well as I thought and didnt dig the GUI much and already had a paid license of Cubase at the time (given as a gift by my brother - bonus!

The thing about Pro Tools is, whether you like it or not, it is a standard in the industry and the most common format for pro audio work. This maybe be changing slowly especially as the latest PT10 update has infuriated many.. but it is likely to stay that way.
this is maybe not so relevant here and completely irrelevant to the home studio producer but overseas very much so, especially USA so any hope of landing a internship over there (especially in the post side side of things) is blown unless you know how to work the software..

Anyway!
Happy Sequencing 8)