Bone Saddle, nut and pins

ET-Phone-Home · 2011-10-11T15:47:34+00:00

I know I can order some from Stewmac but is there any store in JHB that might sell bone saddles, nuts and pins? I recently had a Graphtec nut, saddle and pin...

Bone Saddle, nut and pins

Ray

OK a while back I had a setup done by Pete Buckle - well a few actually but on this one he put bone nut and saddle on a guitar for me. And did a fine job and not that expensive. He used eland bone. Didnt do the pins but I dont really think that they make much of a difference if any - a whole lot of people might start performing here shortly but anyway. Alternatively you can look up how to get the bone and treat it yourself but it sounds like a moer of a job so just order. Is it really going to be that expensive? Have you tried LMI? or luthierssupplies.com or luthierssupplies.co.uk or madinter.com (which is a bunch in Spain). I have only ordered from SM and LMI but I read somewhere that LMI is also in trouble along with Gibson but I see no mention of it on their site. Anyway Pete Buckle's phone no was 0119734831 and maybe it still is. If you do go to see him it also makes for an interesting chat if you've got the time. He was out in Benoni - Brentwood Park.

ET-Phone-Home

Hey Ray, thanks for the info, will contact him when I want to re-do my guitars nut and saddle. A lot of people have said that the bridge pin doesn't affect the tone but I've got to disagree with this.
I don't know if it's the actual material of the pin or the fitment but I found that my Tusq pins definitely added clearity to the bass and treble. Open cords just ring out beautifully and balanced.
With my plastic pins (which were bigger and fitted tighter) the high and low clarity was lost. Although the low's seemed to be louder, they also sounded more like a thump then a smooth bass.
I can't understand why a bridge pin would affect the tone but after changing between plastic and Tusq I can say that there is definitely a change in tone with my own acoustic.

That being said not all guitars are the same and I think for some guitars it may not affect the tone as much. I reckon this is why there are so many conflicting views regarding this topic.

ET-Phone-Home

By the way does anyone know of any stores in JHB that sell Graphtec now that Andy has closed?

Bob-Dubery

ET Phone Home wrote: By the way does anyone know of any stores in JHB that sell Graphtec now that Andy has closed?

Try Music Connection.

Whilst you're there talk to their guitar tech, Mando, about the mods you want done.

Bob-Dubery

I had a bone nut and saddle cut for my Morgan. It does make a difference. There are options regarding the material. Ray has mentioned eland bone, in my case it was warthog tusk, I have heard that hippo tooth is good. Key thing: it must be BONE and it must be solid.

The saddle will make the biggest difference. So you might want to consider doing that first then see if you feel the need to go any further.

If you can import blanks this may be cheaper than the route that I went, with the technician having to first cut the blanks from the tusk and then cut grooves, file to shape and so on.

Now, I don't say that tusq is the be all and end all, but it is a pretty good material and you say you weren't impressed by the results. OK... so
1) who did the work for you? Who took the blanks, cut them to fit, cut the not slots, did the set up etc?
2) are you putting lipstick on a pig here?

Bridge pins.... well I can't hear a difference, but my dog might and Neil Young and Martin Carthy say they can. Young likes water buffalo horn pins, Carthy has brass pins on the 3 high strings of his Martin.

I've just checked my copy of the Acoustic Guitar Owner's Manual (978-1-890490-21-8). That book has a chapter on bridge and pin materials. Unsurprisingly experts do not agree. One of the guys interviewed said that the key thing about bridge pins is "that the pins fit snugly into the bridge and seat the ball end of the strings firmly against the bridge plate." It may be that your tusq pins are just better made than whatever the factory fitted.

Ray

ET Phone Home wrote: A lot of people have said that the bridge pin doesn't affect the tone but I've got to disagree with this.

Ja, truly it is my very amateur opinion and based just on my own fiddlings hey. I've tried a lot of things on one or two guitars that I just scratch around with trying things out. On one of them I just went back to the plastic things nut, saddle and pins that I got it with. But that is probably due to my lack of skills in making the stuff. And because I'm snoep. And because my ear is not as good as other people's. Then again if you think of it a guitar with a tailpiece produces different sound to a guitar with strings into the soundboard. So I've just got to be wrong hey.

AlanRatcliffe

Some guys do hear differences in pins though - to the point of using different materials for different strings. I'm not enough of an acoustic player to have experimented with it and formed my own opinions.

Tusq was a huge improvement on my Cort Earth 900 (parlour guitar with mahogany B&S and a cedar top), which had micarta stock - It added a lot of sparkle and cleaned up the mids (and that guitar was all mids at first). However, I replaced nut, saddle and (plastic) pins all at the same time, so I couldn't say how much difference each made.

One thing I do like Tusq for is USTs - there is far less chance of string balance problems when plugged in than there is with bone.

ET-Phone-Home

Ola my gents ? Thanks for all the info and sorry I'm only replying now.

@ X-Rated Bob: I'm definitely going to take it in to Mando. I've had all my guitars setup at Music Connection and have always been pleased with their work.
Honestly out of all the stores I've been to their work has been the best.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the saddle transfer the vibrations from the string to the top of the guitar, which is mainly were the sound is coming from?
If this is the case then the saddle would make a big difference in the sound of the guitar. What the saddle is made of should also be important as some materials
carry vibrations better than others?

It's very strange because with the Tusq saddle and nut the lows were not as pronounced and the high's were not a clear. I found this to be very strange as Tusq is suppose
to add some definition to the high's and lows, not take them away. The standard nut and saddle on my Walden is a material called Fosilite, apparently Graphtec use to
make them. According to Walden's website, Fosilite was specially designed by themselves and Graphtec to enhance the low to mid low range, but on my Walden it seemed
to improve the highs as well. ???

I took the guitar in to Andy's Guitar World. They provided all the materials (nut, pins and saddle). There are 2 things I didn't like, the saddle was lowered way too much, to the point
that it was a little higher than the bridge, which to me is far to low. Also I don't know if this was the tech himself or if it was pre-cut like this but the saddle has this big half moon shaped
hole in it on the bottom of the saddle where the saddle meets the bottom of the bridge ??? I don't know if this is normal or not but maybe that is also affecting the tone? Apart from these 2 things I was very happy with the work Andy did, so I don't want to seem like I'm bad mouthing him or anything.

Bob-Dubery

ET Phone Home wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the saddle transfer the vibrations from the string to the top of the guitar, which is mainly were the sound is coming from? If this is the case then the saddle would make a big difference in the sound of the guitar. What the saddle is made of should also be important as some materials carry vibrations better than others?

Indeed. This is why I said the saddle is the most important.

I took the guitar in to Andy's Guitar World. They provided all the materials (nut, pins and saddle). There are 2 things I didn't like, the saddle was lowered way too much, to the point that it was a little higher than the bridge, which to me is far to low.

This was discussed in another thread. The break angle of the strings over the saddle is significant as regards tone. Take the saddle too low, and make that angle too shallow and at some point tone and/or volume will be effected.

Also I don't know if this was the tech himself or if it was pre-cut like this but the saddle has this big half moon shaped
hole in it on the bottom of the saddle where the saddle meets the bottom of the bridge ??? I don't know if this is normal or not but maybe that is also affecting the tone?

Standard practice at McGibbon's. The cut out is under the 2nd string. Andy believes that the 2nd string is over emphasised on most guitars and this cut out is intended to de-emphasise the 2nd string and improve balance. This has been done on my guitars before and I've not noticed any adverse effects due to that cut-out - even on guitars with under-saddle pickups.

If the cut out is NOT under the 2nd string then the saddle is in the wrong way around.

ET-Phone-Home

@ Ray: I've read that some guitars actually sounds better with a plastic nut, saddle and pins so there are some exceptions. Also we are all looking for different sound qualities in our guitars. Some people like a bright sounding guitars, others a more muted tone and many other variations in between that. That could also be why some prefer a certain material over another? So I guess it comes back to each their own, if you happy with plastic / Tusq / Bone or whatever else then stick to that. If not then some experimenting might be what's needed to find the tone you like from your guitar.

@Alan, I definitely heard a improvement in tone with the Tusq pins, but whether that has more to do with the actual fit of pin or if it's the material I'm not entirely sure. The Fosilite nut and saddle which came on my Walden is meant to enhance the lows and mid lows, so maybe the Tusq pins added some clarity on the high end because to me it sounded more balanced, with sweeter high's. It cleared up the lows as well. 1 thing I've noticed though is that the plastic pics did add to the lows, however it was more of a thump than a smooth low. The Tusq cleared the lows and made them sound more round and natural and not so thumpy (for lack of a better word). I have a UST so that's a good thing to keep in mind ?

ET-Phone-Home

@ Bob: Ye I hear that the break angle is also very important so that's another thing to look out for ?

Ok cool, it is over the second string so I'm not going to worry about that then. Just thought it was a bit strange as I've never seen this before ?
But hey you learn something new everyday.