Ray
Anyway Gilk (is that your real name?), I am pro the petition and did something there. Too many old people forget when they were young and the generation two or three above them were trying to sleep while they were banging tamborines and djembes.
Gilk
haha banging tamborines and djembes . best reply yet hahaha . No gilk is an inside joke from a very weird day of band practice and the name some how stuck ..
Airguitar
The saving of Cool Runnings needs to be done by themselves.
I've been to the one in Benoni twice, and the second visit was kakker than the first.
1) The service was lousy.
2) The waitrons (wtf??) looked like crap.. Untidy, overweight, greasy hair, smoking behind the counter, the list goes on (Not all of them, but more than one!)
3) The music was ok on the first visit and nonexistent on the second.
4) There is no sound isolation there, so the DJ next door was competing with the live musician.. Jarring!!
Music alone, even good music is not enough to make a venue enjoyable for the patrons. It has to work for them in all respects too, after all, they're going to spend some hard earned cash there, so the venue needs to deliver. I've come back from 10 years in Germany, and there too, there were live venues that worked, and others that sucked, all for the same reasons.
There is nothing worse than having the cops show up to shut down the show because the neighbours are complaining about the noise..
The venue owners/operators ought to take steps to soundproof or alter the layout/location of the venue.
We muso's tend to take this personally, thinking "They just don't like us, or our music, or how much fun we're having" but that's not what it's about.
Don't you just hate being asked to turn down? You wouldn't have to if the venue is set up correctly.
Cool Runnings is a great idea that isn't working out, but easily could.
Mannoroth
My lady friend and I have contemplated and dreamed about opening up our own venue before ?
Wonder if we would be able to sustain such a place if we really put an effort into the sound, atmosphere, cleanliness and service (in other words, do what most of the current venues are not doing ?). I just dont think these places make enough money (Cool runnings case in point) to hire good quality staff, invest in proper equipment, advertise properly etc.
Then again, maybe they just don't care... Cant cost that much to give good service, be friendly, clean up the urine on the floor and keep the place clean.
Bob-Dubery
It depends on what you want to acheive. If you're looking for an outlet for music then why not just start something regular at another venue. An example of the sort of place I'm thinking about is the Alexander Theatre in Braamfontein (Yes... I've been there, for a gig, no problems). It's a good venue with a proper stage, decent lighting, theatre seating), bar downstairs, proper ticketing facilites. Find a place like that and set up an agreement that you put on a show (for example) every 2nd Wednesday night.
There's a sort of club within a club (blues & country) starting up at Tanz. You might be surprised how good a deal you can get if you target a night when the venue isn't that busy.
Doing it this way means that you don't have to arrange food and drinks, buy or sign a lease on a piece of property, don't have to keep the place maintained etc etc.
Look for a venue either out in the sticks where noise is not an issue, or that's not close to or in a suburban residential area.
guidothepimmp
How many folks here have had the experience of running one of these establishments?
Any thoughts how often broken urinals are repaired, how many glasses, sets of cutlery, salt shakers etc are stolen?
Any idea how many the bathrooms are cleaned but because some halfwit is plastered he can't hit a 30cm urinal from 15cm out?
How many times chairs and tables are repaired?
If noise is such an issue why when the zoning of the shop get done was a liquor licence and entertainment licence granted?
I agree that shabby waiters and k@k service is unacceptable but any idea how often that k@k service is because the shabby waiter is pulling a double shift cos the other waiter either didn't pitch or wa sent home for whatever reason?
Just saying, sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye..
Mannoroth
X-rated Bob wrote:
It depends on what you want to acheive. If you're looking for an outlet for music then why not just start something regular at another venue. An example of the sort of place I'm thinking about is the Alexander Theatre in Braamfontein (Yes... I've been there, for a gig, no problems). It's a good venue with a proper stage, decent lighting, theatre seating), bar downstairs, proper ticketing facilites. Find a place like that and set up an agreement that you put on a show (for example) every 2nd Wednesday night.
There's a sort of club within a club (blues & country) starting up at Tanz. You might be surprised how good a deal you can get if you target a night when the venue isn't that busy.
Doing it this way means that you don't have to arrange food and drinks, buy or sign a lease on a piece of property, don't have to keep the place maintained etc etc.
Look for a venue either out in the sticks where noise is not an issue, or that's not close to or in a suburban residential area.
Hmmm, Never thought about it that way... Good suggestion ? Come to think of it, don't know if it would really be worth the pain of taking ownership of such a place if you don't really aim to make a profit. My idea was more to provide a good quality venue to bring musos and fans together, invite international artists, arrange events etc. I suppose with all the criticism going around towards local venues my inner marketer is telling me there is a gap there somewhere!
Averatu
guidothepimmp wrote:
How many folks here have had the experience of running one of these establishments?
Any thoughts how often broken urinals are repaired, how many glasses, sets of cutlery, salt shakers etc are stolen?
Any idea how many the bathrooms are cleaned but because some halfwit is plastered he can't hit a 30cm urinal from 15cm out?
How many times chairs and tables are repaired?
If noise is such an issue why when the zoning of the shop get done was a liquor licence and entertainment licence granted?
I agree that shabby waiters and k@k service is unacceptable but any idea how often that k@k service is because the shabby waiter is pulling a double shift cos the other waiter either didn't pitch or wa sent home for whatever reason?
Just saying, sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye..
I used to arrange gigs for a venue in town, spent a fair amount of time behind the scenes, they where a shady bunch, it was a dump. Some nights the bar was dry by 10, because no one placed orders. As the saying goes, 'Crud in, Crud out'. Wings Beat Bar, it was all about the music, and you could tell, I ate thousands of their pizzas. Sadly they where badly affected by the mass exodus from the city center.
Ray
Just so happens I've been to Cool Runnings on a few occasions. In Benoni. Now what kind of place is it? Is it the place where you take your wife so that you can be served by a waiter who will mince over so that you can feel that the wine is cold enough with the edge of your palm and you can swirl and sniff and look the part? Well, it's not that kind of place. It's where people go to listen loud and get loud and wasted. And if that's not your scene dont go there and then complain about it. There's other people who want to go there man. I dont know how old you okes who are complaining are but hell, if you didnt go to places like that and do those things when you were young then you didnt come from my home town.
Airguitar
Ray wrote:
Just so happens I've been to Cool Runnings on a few occasions. In Benoni. Now what kind of place is it? Is it the place where you take your wife so that you can be served by a waiter who will mince over so that you can feel that the wine is cold enough with the edge of your palm and you can swirl and sniff and look the part? Well, it's not that kind of place. It's where people go to listen loud and get loud and wasted. And if that's not your scene dont go there and then complain about it. There's other people who want to go there man. I dont know how old you okes who are complaining are but hell, if you didnt go to places like that and do those things when you were young then you didnt come from my home town.
I grew up in Benoni, and know all the Jols that WERE Jols from way back.. First I jolled in them, then I played in them. I also learned very quickly that a place like cool runnings will not survive on on the 25 and under crowd, they just don't spend enough money. Play a gig until 2am or 3am and tell me what percentage of over 25's are still there? I'm betting on 25%.
Dude, I am not asking to "Feel the wine", but if I'm paying 40 bucks a beer, I don't like cigarette ash all over it before it's opened, and a waitress that looks like Jabba the Hut!!!
Now that has nothing to do with my age, and everything to do with being professional.
We're talking about running a successful business, and I'm sure the 18-25 crowd won't object to having clean glasses and waitstaff with no monkey gland sauce on their polo shirt. That is what it takes.
Averatu
Hey Airguitar, stop or I'll throw you whiff couscous!!
Airguitar
Averatu wrote:
Hey Airguitar, stop or I'll throw you whiff couscous!!
I'll eat it, boet... ?
epictring
Airguitar wrote:
Averatu wrote:
Hey Airguitar, stop or I'll throw you whiff couscous!!
I'll eat it, boet... ?
Airguitar.. I see your 317 years old on your profile :roflmao:
#joking
Airguitar
epictring wrote:
Airguitar wrote:
Averatu wrote:
Hey Airguitar, stop or I'll throw you whiff couscous!!
I'll eat it, boet... ?
Airguitar.. I see your 317 years old on your profile :roflmao:
#joking
I'm so old, when I was in school hey didn't even HAVE History...
strataxe
Airguitar wrote:
Ray wrote:
Just so happens I've been to Cool Runnings on a few occasions. In Benoni. Now what kind of place is it? Is it the place where you take your wife so that you can be served by a waiter who will mince over so that you can feel that the wine is cold enough with the edge of your palm and you can swirl and sniff and look the part? Well, it's not that kind of place. It's where people go to listen loud and get loud and wasted. And if that's not your scene dont go there and then complain about it. There's other people who want to go there man. I dont know how old you okes who are complaining are but hell, if you didnt go to places like that and do those things when you were young then you didnt come from my home town.
I grew up in Benoni, and know all the Jols that WERE Jols from way back.. First I jolled in them, then I played in them. I also learned very quickly that a place like cool runnings will not survive on on the 25 and under crowd, they just don't spend enough money. Play a gig until 2am or 3am and tell me what percentage of over 25's are still there? I'm betting on 25%.
Dude, I am not asking to "Feel the wine", but if I'm paying 40 bucks a beer, I don't like cigarette ash all over it before it's opened, and a waitress that looks like Jabba the Hut!!!
Now that has nothing to do with my age, and everything to do with being professional.
We're talking about running a successful business, and I'm sure the 18-25 crowd won't object to having clean glasses and waitstaff with no monkey gland sauce on their polo shirt. That is what it takes.
+ 100000000. The problem with many places are...they're cheap. And that draws the 25 and under crowd, the students, who can then get drunk on R11 a beer. Thats R100 for 9 beers, more than enough. They don't really care what the facilities look like. Then that goes to poorly paid staff, and that goes down to poor service, poor facilities...I dont' know Cool runnings, I've been to Melville, and the overcrowding is not my scene. And yes, in my case, how many of ou are over 30 and go out to nightclubs, and where can you go?
Averatu
I've been to Tanzz up the road twice now for the two guitar clinics. Nice facilaties, clean, large enough for a decent crowd. They called last rounds at 10:30, which is lame, and they mostly host pop rock bands that I dont really care to see. The Bo is still a hole in the wall, but the new manager seems to have a pro active approach.
strataxe
Averatu wrote:
I've been to Tanzz up the road twice now for the two guitar clinics. Nice facilaties, clean, large enough for a decent crowd. They called last rounds at 10:30, which is lame, and they mostly host pop rock bands that I dont really care to see. The Bo is still a hole in the wall, but the new manager seems to have a pro active approach.
Ok, sounds nice, but... up which road is it? Theres many of them ?
Averatu
Tanzz is on Witkoppen in 4ways. The Bohemian is in Richmond next to Melville. We're actually going to a gig at the Bo tonight.
IceCreamMan
strataxe wrote:
+ 100000000. The problem with many places are...they're cheap. And that draws the 25 and under crowd, the students, who can then get drunk on R11 a beer. Thats R100 for 9 beers, more than enough. They don't really care what the facilities look like. Then that goes to poorly paid staff, and that goes down to poor service, poor facilities...I dont' know Cool runnings, I've been to Melville, and the overcrowding is not my scene. And yes, in my case, how many of ou are over 30 and go out to nightclubs, and where can you go?
R11 rand beers is no excuse for standing knee deep in piss while slashing in a blcoked urinal .......
i have been to some shebeens with 9 rand QUARTS where the urinals been better....and thats a fact.
and hey i like establishments iwth cheap beer .....
Bob-Dubery
There's a greater problem here, which is that if clubs die (clubs who feature live, original music) then musicians don't have an outlet. This doesn't mean that it's OK to set up a heavy metal club in a residential area and pay the residents no heed, but Johannesburg is getting short of venues right now.
I used to love going to clubs. There's nothing better - good live music, small venue, a bit of dancing, some socialising in between sets. I used to spend a lot of time at the Boogy Barn in Hillbrow (basement of the Chelsea Hotel) and I recall a similar venue up on the Berea somewhere in Durban (I recall seeing The Gents play there in '79). The Wagon Wheels in Durban... Ok that was a hotel, but it had a club room where they had great live music. I used to see Finch & Henson there, and before that Luis Ribeiro's Palm Boat Band and the Silver Creek Mountain Band. Best of all, perhaps, was Jameson's in Commissioner Street. Hmmm.... DV8 was fun, so was Dylan's in Rockey Street (there were others in that street, they seemed to come and go fairly regularly). What was that two-tone club down in Joubert Park?
In the late 70s the clubs started booking show bands a lot. Many of them very good, but it didn't do that much for people who had aspirations to play or listen to original music. So venues like the Boogy Barn were priceless.
I was down in Cape Town recently. What I found interesting and enjoyable there was how the city centre is still busy. That's where clubs really need to be - in business areas where people work by day and DON'T live by night.
There are actually venues and restaurants in "old" Johannesgburg, also some interesting experiments with mixed use areas where you can live, exercise, eat out, catch a movie and have a late night drink all in one or two blocks (see Arts On Main, that area). Yes, yes... I've been there. I didn't get knifed, was at no time under threat or felt that way, nobody broke into my car...
There are also lots of old warehouse and office areas that might be available for rent - and where you can make plenty of noise. There's always ways for people who want to think outside of the box a little bit. In '79 and '80 with the Asylum Kids getting too big for the Boogy Barn and the lease on that club having expired and the new owners of the Chelsea Hotel not wanting long-haired types hanging around, their manager started booking rooms in the City Hall. They had several, different sizes. It was easy to get a liquor license for the night. Indeed some of the rooms may have had a bar service (they certainly had bars). There was loads of parking, and few problems with noise. There were some fab gigs there.
So maybe there's the hope for rock 'n roll in Jo'burg - the city centre.
